Baroness Thatcher has died.

[Iraklis F.C.]

“I don't know what weapons will be used in world war three, but in world war four people will use USB sticks and keyboards.”

― Albert Einstein, Autobiographical Notes

fixed

 

[Macro]

I also think I should be in charge of everything.

I may be prepared to vote for you and support his proposition, what's in it for me?

 

[Faustus]

I find it difficult to dislike the BBC, I LOVE Radio 4, I LOVE quality BBC documentaries. I think it is difficult for them as a state organisation. I can see that this track may cause distress to the family and from that perspective I cant say that the BBC is doing a bad thing here, BUT it's only a stupid thing that is now getting much more publicity due to this. I dunno.

I too love their quality programming, especially the documentaries. However, they really have lost all objectivity and balance over the death of Thatcher. It's just like the bad old days when I was much younger and they used to ban records that had racy themes. I thought we were long past those times - seemingly not.

 

[asim18]

fixed

LOL brilliant.

 

[Robosapien]

I find it difficult to dislike the BBC, I LOVE Radio 4, I LOVE quality BBC documentaries. I think it is difficult for them as a state organisation. I can see that this track may cause distress to the family and from that perspective I cant say that the BBC is doing a bad thing here, BUT it's only a stupid thing that is now getting much more publicity due to this. I dunno.

To be fair the comedy sketch shows on Radio 4 are usually pretty left and reasonably scathing of Thatcher.

As to the coverage, I've thought about it a little and actually do think they have no alternative but to be as much on the fence as possible, if that means trying to be unbiased by portraying her policies as "dividing" instead of absolutely catastrophic for the majority, whilst simultaneously conforming to traditional rituals of paying respect to dead leaders, so be it. Quite difficult middle ground to navigate, I can see them being criticised whatever they do so the best course of action is damage limitation. Extremely narrow tightrope this one though, it's hardly Diana this time round.

 

[newbiejim]

I too love their quality programming, especially the documentaries. However, they really have lost all objectivity and balance over the death of Thatcher. It's just like the bad old days when I was much younger and they used to ban records that had racy themes. I thought we were long past those times - seemingly not.

There is a massively good case for just playing it, and tbh if they were objective they should play it, I mean if the public propel this to popularity for whatever reason it is not the role of the BBC to make this call. Oh I've just remembered, new series of The News Quiz starts today!, seriously funny, if you haven't listened to it give it a whirl.

 

[aardvark]

I too love their quality programming, especially the documentaries. However, they really have lost all objectivity and balance over the death of Thatcher. It's just like the bad old days when I was much younger and they used to ban records that had racy themes. I thought we were long past those times - seemingly not.

surely this is different though??? people are buying this to mock the death of a famous person - pretty bad taste. Hardly surprising that the bbc, as a public service broadcaster, has made the decision they did.

 

[Robosapien]

surely this is different though??? people are buying this to mock the death of a famous person - pretty bad taste. Hardly surprising that the bbc, as a public service broadcaster, has made the decision they did.

It's not mocking a death, it's celebrating a life. Sheesh, how many times...raise a whisky to her memory and let's get on down like it's 1989.

 

[Faustus]

surely this is different though??? people are buying this to mock the death of a famous person - pretty bad taste. Hardly surprising that the bbc, as a public service broadcaster, has made the decision they did.

Did you not mean infamous?

 

[Faustus]

I read Ken Clarke's comments today on the Funeral etc. Hardly a ringing endorsement I'd say. I believe the Speaker of the House of Commons wasn't overly impressed with the early recall of Parliament either. One suspects Cameron has been using the situation to further his own political ends, though he might have just misjudged the mood of the country on this one.

 

[aardvark]

Did you not mean infamous?

to some people.
she was highly respected by a lot of people, maybe not you, but a lot of other people.
whether you agree with her policies or not she was still a human being who did what she thought was best for the country at the time and deserves a little respect.

 

[theleg]

Why do people make out like she was universally disliked? As usual, its a vocal minority speaking out. Please dont make the mistake of thinking such people represent the majority.

 

[Robosapien]

fixed

Is actually brilliant. Assuming it is a post apocalyptic world where electron-flow dependent technology has long ceased to function, they may well use these devices to literally bash each other around the head with.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

What's your opinion on the special treatment and pleading now?

Im not sure I understand the question. Now as in present day (anyone in particular in mind?), or now as in after my background reading and reflections on this discussion?

Anyway, I am off to bed, so will not be making any further replies tonight, but will get back to you tomorrow if you can clarify your question.

Cheers

 

[Robosapien]

Why do people make out like she was universally disliked? As usual, its a vocal minority speaking out. Please don't make the mistake of thinking such people represent the majority.

Good point, apologies. But likewise don't assume the vocal minority speaking out aren't representative of those whom choose not to. Unless you are a betazoid?

 

[theleg]

Good point, apologies. But likewise don't assume the vocal minority speaking out aren't representative of those whom choose not to. Unless you are a betazoid?

Oh I dont. but i do believe that the majority of the country sees her in a positive light.

Its very sad that on some american forums i read, people are seeing the parties and making the jump that she was hated by the whole country. Very sad indeed.

 

[Hagar]

Good point, apologies. But likewise don't assume the vocal minority speaking out aren't representative of those whom choose not to. Unless you are a betazoid?

The vocal minority tend to attached to keyboards, most of the people who lived and worked through the seventies do not unless like me they were in their twenties in that decade.

WTF is a betazoid?

 

[Castiel]

WTF is a betazoid?

Fictional race of telepaths and empaths in the Star-Trek universe.

 

[Biohazard]

I read Ken Clarke's comments today on the Funeral etc. Hardly a ringing endorsement I'd say. I believe the Speaker of the House of Commons wasn't overly impressed with the early recall of Parliament either. One suspects Cameron has been using the situation to further his own political ends, though he might have just misjudged the mood of the country on this one.

This is a Tory state funeral, that's why.

Thatcher funeral's military pomp raises concerns at Buckingham Palace

Questions raised over appropriateness of such a divisive figure being escorted on her final journey by military honours



Buckingham Palace raised concerns about the ceremonial funeral with military honours for Lady Thatcher that is to be attended on Wednesday by the Queen and more than 2,000 guests including every surviving British prime minister, the Guardian understands.

As invitations were sent out to world leaders, including all surviving US presidents and Hillary Clinton, it emerged that concerns were expressed at the highest levels about whether it is appropriate for such a controversial figure to be escorted on her final journey by more than 700 military personnel.

In discussions about the funeral held over recent years, it is understood that questions were raised by senior figures about whether it would be right to associate the military with such a divisive figure, according to a well-placed Whitehall source.

It is understood that there were fears that the British tradition, in which the monarchy rather than politicians are associated with ceremonial aspects of the military, could be called into question. Thatcher's coffin will be drawn on a gun carriage of the King's Troop Royal Horse Artillery from St Clement Danes church – the church of the Royal Air Force in the Strand – to St Paul's cathedral.

David Cameron embarked on a late review of the funeral arrangements, which have been in preparation since Tony Blair's premiership, after the death of Thatcher from a stroke at the age of 87 on Monday. The meeting heard that a state funeral – last held in 1965 for Winston Churchill – had been ruled out under the last government at the express wishes of Thatcher. It is understood she felt uncomfortable about the prospect of lying in state. "I am not Winston," Thatcher is said to have told friends.

Thatcher's funeral is causing some political controversy. One senior Labour figure dubbed it the "Tory state funeral".

Cameron, who has been periodically briefed on the arrangements since entering Downing Street, did make one change to the plans. He insisted that parliament should be recalled – a break with plans that said MPs and peers would pay tribute to the late prime minister at the earliest opportunity if the Commons and Lords were in recess.

The change of plan caused some irritation among Labour MPs, though Ed Miliband raised no objections in line with his decision to respond to Thatcher's death in a dignified manner.

The PM accepted that a full ceremonial funeral would be held instead of a state funeral. Officials told him there was little practical difference between the two and the arrangements for Thatcher would be similar to the funerals granted to the Queen Mother and Diana, Princess of Wales. This allowed the government to say during the week that the funeral would "look and feel like a state funeral to all intents and purposes".

Buckingham Palace is understood to have noticed the similarity between a state and a ceremonial event during the lengthy preparations for the funeral.

Thatcher's funeral will look almost identical to the state funeral for Churchill, which caused no controversy because he was seen as a unifying figure during one of the gravest moments in British history. The unease explains why such emphasis has been placed on explaining that a ceremonial funeral will be held in the hope that people will understand that Thatcher is being treated differently to Churchill.

The sheer scale of the funeral was made clear on Thursday when No 10 announced that world leaders, including all surviving US presidents, would be invited. A dress code, including "Full Day Ceremonial without swords" and "Morning Dress (Black Waistcoat and Black Tie) / dark suit", will be included in the invitations.

The guest list has been drawn up by Thatcher's friends and representatives in conjunction with the government. All former members of her cabinets will be invited. This means that Lord Heseltine, whose challenge to Thatcher ended her premiership, will have to decide whether to go. He missed the Lords debate on Wednesday in which tributes were paid.

Lord Kinnock, the former Labour leader defeated by Thatcher in 1987, is not attending. He has not been invited because he will be attending a funeral in Wales. But the Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson will attend.

Thatcher's coffin will be carried into the cathedral by a bearer party consisting of military personnel made up of all the three armed services including units involved in the 1982 Falklands war, which played an important part in strengthening Thatcher's premiership.

This is a short distance from the Mansion House where Thatcher caused controversy by straying into territory normally occupied by royalty when she took the salute at a military parade in October 1982 after victory in the Falklands.

It is understood that the Queen has decided to break with recent precedent and attend the funeral with the Duke of Edinburgh because of Thatcher's achievement in becoming Britain's first woman prime minister. The Queen has not attended the funeral of any former prime minister since Churchill's.

Thatcher's status as the first woman prime minister was one of the key reasons to justify a state funeral if one had been held under plans drawn up under the last government.

The guidance also stated that Thatcher was a figure of great historical importance because of her role in bringing an end to the cold war which posed such a great threat to Britain and the world.

My emphasis. New Labour = Margaret Thatcher's children.

Labour dismisses call for Thatcher statue on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square as 'crass triumphalism'

only a short time ago we had this;

Grantham Museum confirms Thatcher statue plans

Former Conservative Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher will have a statue erected in her honour in her home town of Grantham in Lincolnshire.

A plan to raise more than £200,000 for a statue and renovation project at the Grantham Museum has been unveiled.

Labour councillors had called for a town centre statue after the Conservative-majority authority voted against the move last week.

.....

Labour councillors said a statue could help boost tourism in the area.

Tory councillor Bob Adams said it was the "express wish of Baroness Thatcher that a statue not be erected" in the town.

That was before she died. Labour do want a statue, but not one when she's dead in the middle of London?

Gotcha.

 

[Biohazard]

Im not sure I understand the question. Now as in present day (anyone in particular in mind?), or now as in after my background reading and reflections on this discussion?

Anyway, I am off to bed, so will not be making any further replies tonight, but will get back to you tomorrow if you can clarify your question.

Cheers

I understand your position on the 'greed' of miners, what do you make of our current day state sponsored finance 'greed' out of interest?