Beheaded teacher in a street in France(Usual suspects).

[Maccy]

Clearly this guidance on Speakers Corner should not be taken as expressing any objection to the intolerant, bigoted Usual Suspects starting and participating in yet another thread attacking the (admittedly often misguided) beliefs of everybody who happens to follow Islam, based on the actions of the occasional madman.

Indeed, this thread is on the verge of going.

 

[Raz]

I don't understand how the word of God can be open to interpretation.

If the word of God is so ambiguous then that to me is proof alone that it isn't the word of God.

Yes.

Plus the Koran was written by one man over many decades. In which there are many many contradictions.

Over those decades he became famous, grew in power, became a warlord after amassing many followers he turned into an army of god. So the later passages are all very barbaric but followers believe the later passages overrule the previous ones as it was the most recent word of God and earlier more tolerant passages are overruled.

With so many contradictions you can see how some follow the barbaric later passages and some follow the more acceptable earlier passages.

Wrong but slightly right.

You would need to form a world islamic council which dictates to all Muslims what they should be doing and what they can and cannot do. Anyone who didn't want to follow this should be exiled and reported if they are promoting terror and intolerance.

Other religions have councils in place to update their religion for the modern world.

Yes, that's a little more of a constructive post than usual.

There are some valid points raised against Islam, no denying that. Unfortunately, my own position on the matter has put me into conflict with others in RL, so it's not something I'd shy away from. That said, I wonder how many people here who are adamant that their interpretation of Islam i.e. the violent Breitbart version would speak so loudly against Judaism and Jews? (I think some would tbf). I mean specifically the Jewish religion and scripture, not as part of the Bible and NT...

In any case, and more on topic, it's clear these threads never get anywhere as there's only a handful of people who take a sensible, that is realistic, position. Taking the position that Islam is peaceful and terrorists are simply not Muslims isn't accurate, nor is the claim that Islam is all about beheadings, terrorism etc.

How about -

How do we engage with Muslim communities to ensure they take a stricter approach to addressing/combating any form of extremism?
What can organisations such as the MCB do to tackle extremism in communities and if they aren't doing anything do we need to replace them with a more inclusive organisation? (e.g. a council of Sufis, Ahmadis etc would be different to a mainstream Sunni one)

and so on...

 

[Pudney]

I don't understand how the word of God can be open to interpretation.

Clearly you don't understand.

Random example. What does "example" mean? Google shows at least 3 definitions. If I say:

The teacher sets an example.

What does this mean? It could mean the teacher is setting a question. It could mean the teacher is presenting a way of behaving or being. Either way it's ambiguous. All through the wonders of human communication.

That's only in English, other languages can have far more ambiguity.

 

[Pudney]

Indeed, this thread is on the verge of going.

Aww, but I just put effort into expressing the ambiguity existing in the written word

 

[Raz]

Indeed, this thread is on the verge of going.

I do miss the old days when...oh wait

I'll bow out of this now.

 

[Dis86]

Indeed, this thread is on the verge of going.

Guys, this is how you get rid of a religion without genocide. You Maccy it!

 

[Pudney]

There can't be different interpretations, it's the literal and infallible word of an all knowing divine being. He would know if people were going to interpret it wrongly and therefore would only say it in a way that could only ever be interpreted correctly.


Or it's complete rubbish written by people to control and enslave their subjects.

I mean, obviously there can be given I've provided one.

In my other posts I haven't even touched on the ambiguity by translating into different languages.

 

[Maccy]

Aww, but I just put effort into expressing the ambiguity existing in the written word

Intelligent, constructive and considerate debate is great. Posting abhorrent/disguised racist views - no thanks.

Guys, this is how you get rid of a religion without genocide. You Maccy it!

You of all people knows it

 

[Dis86]

I mean, obviously there can be given I've provided one.

In my other posts I haven't even touched on the ambiguity by translating into different languages.

Again, you've completely missed the infallibility of the Divine. The fact that it can be interpreted differently proves it's not the word of God which therefore means its fundamental premise is flawed.
In other words...it's rubbish.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

What I was getting to in an earlier post and what you highlight here is that modern day Christians and Jews don't practise their religion (as they should be..?) but both are much more older than Islam and have come to their current, perhaps more generally liberal interpretations through centuries of war and suffering. Islam, in contrast, is 600 years younger than Christianity and has developed in a far different world than its predecessors (considering international politics, colonialism, the World Wars, the emergence of Wahabism and its impact on Muslim governance, politics and interpretations, the established of many Islamic terrorist groups in response to perceived or real Western aggression). These things do have an impact on a group's identity, attitudes and development and while Islam itself isn't and shouldn't be free from criticism just pointing to it and putting all of the blame on it isn't the right approach and is slightly deceptive.

I do think Islam will change for the better, but not today or tomorrow. I also think there's going to be a whole lot more bloodshed and atrocities, unfortunately, whether it's internally through Muslims fighting for some form of reformation or there's a forced change by others.

The problem with this is that Islam has progressed backwards from where it once was, I don't buy the "younger" religion line of thinking, especially when the Muslim world was once a bastion of science, mathematics and progression.

 

[Pudney]

Again, you've completely missed the infallibility of the Divine. The fact that it can be interpreted differently proves it's not the word of God which therefore means its fundamental premise is flawed.
In other words...it's rubbish.

I mean, you're starting position is that for it to be infallible it can only be interpreted one way. Seems a misplaced starting point.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Indeed, this thread is on the verge of going.

Yet people like Stockhausen, Tony Edwards etc can freely slander anyone without consequence. Got it.

 

[Pudney]

Yet people like Stockhausen, Tony Edwards etc can freely slander anyone without consequence. Got it.

Slander is spoken. Libel is written.

 

[Maccy]

Yet people like Stockhausen, Tony Edwards etc can freely slander anyone without consequence. Got it.

No, my post was applicable to everyone - just quoted his post highlighting the rules.

 

[Theophany]

Religion makes people crazy. Even non-religious folk.

 

[mmj_uk]

I wonder if the guy who tore the cross down off the church will be brutally murdered by a Christian for doing it? it seems to me some religions are more peaceful than others.

 

[Dis86]

I mean, you're starting position is that for it to be infallible it can only be interpreted one way. Seems a misplaced starting point.

How? There can only be one truth, especially when you consider some of the interpretations are axiomatic.

 

[Theophany]

I wonder if the guy who tore the cross down off the church will be brutally murdered by a Christian for doing it? it seems to me some religions are more peaceful than others.

You are aware the KKK is a very alive and fundamentally Christian organisation, right? Bat guano insane Christians are not in short supply, it's the basis of the vast majority of white supremacy.

It would be funny if it weren't depressing that there are active threads dismissing the daily struggles of minorities whilst this thread is jerking itself off to say how bad Islam is.

I hate to sound like the edgy teenager in the room but organised religion is a tool to control populations and it's more productive to argue what distro of Linux you use. At least then everybody can agree that Gentoo is ridiculous.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

The problem with this is that Islam has progressed backwards from where it once was, I don't buy the "younger" religion line of thinking, especially when the Muslim world was once a bastion of science, mathematics and progression.

There are younger religions which promote equality and tolerance. So the young religion is a BS argument.

They seem to be regressing religiously and morally. Like I said before I don't see reform ever happening. It's 2020 why is there no islamic council condemning these activities and atrocities. If anything it's promoted within the Muslim world.

 

[Bassmansam]

How did he manage to cut his head off withhout the victim running away or was he held down by more than 1 person. Reports say it was just one attacker.