Belgian Grand Prix 2014, Spa-Francorchamps - Race 12/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Unbelievable from Rosberg. I thought he got a little lucky not to get a penalty but I didn't think it was anything other than a misjudgement so hearing afterwards that he actually admitted to choosing not to avoid it? Despicable, not to mention rather stupid. He could easily have scotched his own race instead of Hamilton's.
I hope the F1 authorities will be watching him with a baleful eye from now on.
Otherwise seemed a cracking race - from the highlights at least - the battle at the end between the two McLarens, Vettel and Alonso was awesome. And I'm delighted to see Kimi finally having a good race.
Ricciardio once again showing Vettel up. That really has been one of the highlights of the season in my eyes.
I hope the F1 authorities will be watching him with a baleful eye from now on.
Otherwise seemed a cracking race - from the highlights at least - the battle at the end between the two McLarens, Vettel and Alonso was awesome. And I'm delighted to see Kimi finally having a good race.
Ricciardio once again showing Vettel up. That really has been one of the highlights of the season in my eyes.
If a driver openly admits to causing a collision (which as far as my memory serves me, we have not heard since... well days of Senna/Prost?), then surely FIA must intervene, otherwise they will be setting a precedent for other drivers to do similar things?
But most of us said it was more than a racing incident, apart form the usual suspects
Indeed...
EJ was a little grating today, he seems to hold one position absolutely but then new events change his position and suddenly this was always his position and he knew this all along - such ****.
Regarding Rosbergs actions it feels like Button in Canada a few years ago, I thought at the time Button closed the door on Hamilton because he'd been too soft before and Hamilton was beginning to expect him to always let him through - no racer wants that.
But Button was in front, apologised without accepting guilt and went on to win the race.
Rosberg messed this up in every way possible - he intended to draw a line in the sand and mess with Hamilton's head some more but what he's achieved is to make himself look bad to the team and public and worst of all I think he may have managed to fire up Hamilton in a way we haven't seen since he raced with Alonso.
It could only get worse for Rosberg if the FIA decide to intervene - it's unlikely but there is precedent for excluding drivers from races for this sort of thing. Who knows, he looks to have benefited from his actions atm but it could end up costing him a hell of a lot more in the end.
Regarding Rosbergs actions it feels like Button in Canada a few years ago, I thought at the time Button closed the door on Hamilton because he'd been too soft before and Hamilton was beginning to expect him to always let him through - no racer wants that.
But Button was in front, apologised without accepting guilt and went on to win the race.
Rosberg messed this up in every way possible - he intended to draw a line in the sand and mess with Hamilton's head some more but what he's achieved is to make himself look bad to the team and public and worst of all I think he may have managed to fire up Hamilton in a way we haven't seen since he raced with Alonso.
It could only get worse for Rosberg if the FIA decide to intervene - it's unlikely but there is precedent for excluding drivers from races for this sort of thing. Who knows, he looks to have benefited from his actions atm but it could end up costing him a hell of a lot more in the end.
I dunno this will be a tough one going from the words of Wolff...
Wolff said: "Nico felt he needed to hold his line. He needed to make a point and for Lewis it was clearly not him who needed to be aware of Nico.
"(Rosberg) didn't give in. He thought it was for Lewis to leave him space and that Lewis didn't leave him space.
"So they agreed to disagree in a very heated discussion among ourselves, but it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense.
"It was deliberately taking into account that if Lewis moves or would open then it could end up in a crash."
So basically he put himself in a position knowing that if Lewis moved they would clash, he hasn't deliberately hit him but knew there would be an accident if Lewis continued on the racing line. I think that's going to be a very hard one for the FIA to punish on.
The worst thing will be what Merc do now. I can see them running a system like Mclaren did when the driver to the first corner wins the race or race decided by the first pitstop. Clearly they are going to do something to ruin the show for us all
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Oct 2005
- Posts
- 6,243
- Location
- North of Watford Gap
Racing incidents where the stewards are deciding on potential penalties have to be brought up within 30 minutes of it taking place (be it a race penalty or "investigated after the race"), however I'm sure if new information comes to light, the FIA can re-evaluate the situation.
I can't remember it ever happening though. There have been disqualifications long after the race and Schumacher was stripped of his second place in the championship in 1997, but that wasn't a race penalty and he wasn't forced to miss the opening race of 1998, nor stripped of points, just placed last in the standings for that year.
Grosjean would be the most recent similar case, but that was dealt with at the track by the on-site stewards.
There will be measures the FIA can take if they deem it necessary to look further into any new information though. At the very least it will be brought up in the drivers meeting at Monza (among a few other incidents I suspect).
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2004
- Posts
- 7,607
Been out since 9am at a local air show enjoying the 2 Lancasters paying a visit and the Vulcan even appeared at one point.
Was worth missing the race for.
Still know what happened though, will be watching it later on.
The Vulcan sounds amazing doesn't it
Do you think the team have enough control over there drivers to effectively manage this, i'm not sure they have, i reckon both will continue fighting until all hope of the title is lost.The worst thing will be what Merc do now. I can see them running a system like Mclaren did when the driver to the first corner wins the race or race decided by the first pitstop. Clearly they are going to do something to ruin the show for us all
Looking at Wolffes words Rosberg hasn't admitted to deliberately causing an accident. He just knew one would happen if Lewis took the (rightful) line. Lewis has then come out the meeting and told the word Rosberg crashed into him on purpose and it's gone mad. I'm guessing that's not exactly what Rosberg meant but the press have latched onto Lewis's words.
None of us know what was said that's just my guess from Wolffes words. After all Lewis can run the mouth when he's fired up.
Jacques by the same token knew MS was going to move into him and slow him down at Jerez, doesn't mean he deliberately caused an accident j/k
None of us know what was said that's just my guess from Wolffes words. After all Lewis can run the mouth when he's fired up.
Jacques by the same token knew MS was going to move into him and slow him down at Jerez, doesn't mean he deliberately caused an accident
j/kI imagine they have contracts these days water tight in the teams favour that they obey instructions. I'm sure they can fire someone if they ignored orders. I hope it doesn't happen (control), but I fear something like that will happen and they will control them
Mostly I'm gutted the next race isn't in Germany.
Amazing how everyone seems to know exactly what Rosberg said and context when Wolff's own words and he was there aren't saying he deliberately caused a crash. He says Rosberg expected room and Lewis (rightly in my opinion) didn't feel it was up to him to be aware of Nico. Nico did this knowing that if Lewis wasn't aware this would cause contact. That's not deliberately causing an accident or every driver that ever tries a move off the racing line would be guilty of it.
It was a very poor move, nothing more. Very very badly handled by Rosberg and he's ruined his reputation with his stubbornness for a while at least.
Anyway I'm out, so much fuss about nothing
It was a very poor move, nothing more. Very very badly handled by Rosberg and he's ruined his reputation with his stubbornness for a while at least.
Anyway I'm out, so much fuss about nothing
Last edited:
Permabanned
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2010
- Posts
- 10,263
- Location
- UK
Williams seem to treat the sport more as a business also. Iirc Clare has openly discussed their tactics which is to just bring the car home and in the points without taking risks. Williams just seem too conservative but whatever they're doing is working.
Other legends of the sport have also been ruthless drivers. Senna and Schumacker have taken out rivals and team mates to get to the top. Lets not forget Sennas speech about " gaps and opportunities " too. Yet those drivers are hailed as great but when Nico does the same why is everyone so upset?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Amazing how everyone seems to know exactly what Rosberg said and context when Wolff's own words and he was there aren't saying he deliberately caused a crash. He says Rosberg expected room and Lewis (rightly in my opinion) didn't feel it was up to him to be aware of Nico. Nico did this knowing that if Lewis wasn't aware this would cause contact. That's not deliberately causing an accident or every driver that ever tries a move off the racing line would be guilty of it.
It was a very poor move, nothing more. Very very badly handled by Rosberg and he's ruined his reputation with his stubbornness for a while at least.
Anyway I'm out, so much fuss about nothing
Yes but your uber troll Hamilton posts are grating and the agenda is clear.
Once again the video clearly, I mean 100% undeniably to anyone with eyes turns into Hamilton. He DID NOT MAINTAIN HIS LINE regardless of what the line is.
This is very easily explained and it's only misunderstood by people being purposefully obtuse.
Hamilton says he deliberately refused to avoid a collision. Wolff says this and adds some horsecrap about staying on line to make it sound less you know, penalty/punishment inducing to the FIA. He did not stay on line, because that is nonsense, if someone is on track and you decide your line is the same and smack in to them, that isn't anything but causing a collision.
It might sound good to people to say deliberately didn't avoid a collision but again, if someone refuses to brake and smashes in to someone they knew would clearly be braking, you are causing a crash directly, not indirectly.
It doesn't matter how he words it when the words mean the same thing. Deliberately refusing to avoid a collision is attempting to sound passive, like someone else was in control and he left it up to fate, as with the braking example, that is complete and utter turd. A car is in front of you, you know a car is in front of you, running in to it is causing a collision.
Wolff has completely said Rosberg caused the collision and deliberately, you are intentionally misunderstanding the utterly retarded wording to somehow manage to think Rosberg doing what he did, while admitting it was deliberate, was somehow not deliberate.
Schumacher crashes, comes back on and hits Hill.... he deliberated refused to avoid a collision...... just because you say the words avoid and refuse... doesn't change what happened.
Once again so you can't possibly misunderstand it, Rosberg turned away then chose to turn back into Hamilton, he has said this action was deliberate, it looks deliberate. If you can't comprehend that Wolff both confirmed what Hamilton said and then tried to rephrase it to sound a little more neutral praying the FIA doesn't decide to go at him for it, well then every will know precisely what your game is.
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Because all those drivers were great when not cheating as well, not being spanked silly in every match up with a team mate, literally every time. Hamilton has completely and utterly owned him, he owned him last year when Rosberg was much more comfortable with the car. Only things like Hamilton's tyre explosions and having more bad luck throughout the year than Rosberg put them anywhere near close, and that was because Hamilton had bad luck in the few races that Merc was able to win races, if the bad luck happened elsewhere the points difference would have been gigantic last year, and if they had "equal" amount of failures this year he'd also be very far ahead right now.
Senna and Schumi had their exceptionally dirty moments, but when they weren't being dodgy they were great to watch and beat people fairly all the time.
Personally I don't remember enough races of Senna's to know, he's just a legend where mostly I've seen clips of good passes but outside of having the knowledge that everyone rates him I don't really ever feel that about him myself. With Schumi I've seen many more races and been entertained by his racing and angered by his cheating.
AS with Vettel, and Button, and Hamilton and Alonso, I don't rate them based on world titles, or a bunch of races but have an overall feel of a driver, I liked watching Schumi driver, I know he was excellent, that is as far as it goes.
Rosberg cheating makes things more interesting and I'd be frustrated if Rosberg won the title with all the dodgy crap he's gotten up to this season, and his "i'm getting spanked so now I'm going to start cheating" personality trait isn't particularly endearing. He's okay to watch but gets stuck behind people a little too often and doesn't exhibit a lot of great racing, just when he has the car and advantage he DRS's past people.
Some people on here will insist that if Rosberg scores more points than Hamilton and wins the title, Rosberg will have been the better driver this year. I won't think anyone but Riccy or Hamilton has been the best driver this year(unless something massive changes in the next 7 races). Points are a combination of driving, luck, failures, luck, luck and luck. A good driver is a good driver, you can have a crap drive and win or a epic drive and finish 10th.
I mostly want Hamilton to win the title so that the idiots who will harp on about points totals won't have ammo to make ridiculous arguments with
I want to see good races, I don't much care who wins the title.
Last edited:
It seemed like fact. Hamilton said what he said, then an official Merc spokesman confirmed that what Hamilton said was accurate. Now we are hearing something different from Toto, and the spokesman has changed the story from saying Hamilton was accurate to saying that only the "proving a point" quote was accurate.
With such backpedalling it looks to me like Toto is putting a positive spin on the whole thing to negate the possibility of the FIA reopening a case.
What we need now is a transcript or at least exact quotes of what Nico said to be released. If they don't do this then it looks like merc are just covering their asses with their latest statement.
Back to the incident itself I'm surprised the FIA didn't investigate the collision in the first place. Where one driver gains an advantage over another by causing a collision there needs to be penalties applied. The FIA seems to have gone from one extreme of penalising absolutely everything even when no penalty was necessary to penalising absolutely nothing.
I'm sure his reputation will be absolutely fine when he becomes World Champ.
History tell us that people don't win championships by being nice (look up Lauda's quote from today on this note). The greatest F1 driver ever once said...
World championships have been decided by incidents bigger than this in the past, this is what real racing is about.
Next time round it will be Hammy making a bad judgement call and let's see if we get to 20 pages....over dramatisation or what.
History tell us that people don't win championships by being nice (look up Lauda's quote from today on this note). The greatest F1 driver ever once said...
World championships have been decided by incidents bigger than this in the past, this is what real racing is about.
Next time round it will be Hammy making a bad judgement call and let's see if we get to 20 pages....over dramatisation or what.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
No longer go for a gap which exists is not the same, even if it uses the same words, as going for a gap that no longer exists. The latter is what happened, Rosberg didn't even go for a gap that didn't exist, his wing was directly alongside Hamilton's rear tire, there was ONE possible result by turning right at that point, contact, he did it anyway. Gap or not, all completely pointless to discuss. When he turned right on Hamilton and made contact there was no other possible result. If he was trying to pass him, why turn into his wheel, if he was trying to get in behind him... he was no longer trying to pass him, and why if he was trying that did he smack across the entire wheel, not just catch the trailing edge. He misjudged slipping in behind him by a half metre? when these guys race inches apart many times throughout the season.
he hit him, on purpose, it has nothing to do with over taking, going for a gap. There was no gap, he went for an overtake down the straight, he didn't make it stick, there was 0% chance of overtaking once Hamilton hit the apex first and with the distance ahead he was, Rosberg then chose to hit Hamilton.
he hit him, on purpose, it has nothing to do with over taking, going for a gap. There was no gap, he went for an overtake down the straight, he didn't make it stick, there was 0% chance of overtaking once Hamilton hit the apex first and with the distance ahead he was, Rosberg then chose to hit Hamilton.