Belgian Grand Prix 2014, Spa-Francorchamps - Race 12/19

[Cavallino]

When you can choose to avoid a collision and don't, it is exactly no different to saying I could chose not to crash but do... they are logically equivalent.

But as I've said before, the key problem with Toto's attempted get out of jail rewording of the same sentence, is that the video 100% shows that Rosberg pulled away then actively chose to turn in to Hamilton when there was a 100% chance of contact.

Regardless of Toto's attempting to get out of trouble, the video shows Rosberg deliberately causing a crash, if you're denying that when the wing is fully alongside the rear wheel and you choose to turn that wing into the rear wheel that it's not a deliberate action... you're mental.

This is the problem, the video straight away long before the end of the race put the fault 100% on Rosberg the ONLY question was if he accidentally hit him by misjudging it when trying to get in behind Hamilton or if he deliberately hit him. He's since said he deliberately made that action... end of, there is no argument, the precise wording is irrelevant. Toto says Rosberg did what he did deliberately, Hamilton says it, that part is agreed on, so Rosberg says he did it deliberately and the video shows us what he did deliberately, turn into Hamilton causing a contact... deliberately.

By the way, Im in the "Rosbergs fault" camp.

But if you look at the video, it isn't so much Rosberg turning in on Hamilton, but Hamilton taking the racing line, since if you look at Hamiltons right side (going into the corner), there was tarmac.

So its a matter of perspective. Rosberg could say Hamilton turned in on him since he had tarmac to HIS RIGHT, but Hamilton could equally say, I was ahead and I was taking the racing line.

If you look at the replay just prior to arriving into the corner, Hamilton arrived at the 50 yard point before the corner and Rosbergs front wing wasn't even reaching the back of Hamiltons car!

Im not sure at what point Rosberg thought that he would be able to get into the corner and make it out of it ahead of Hamilton.

 

[dannyjo22]

So Hamilton, who is always hot headed, came out saying 'he did it on purpose' and everyone believed him?

Pretty much and it won't matter what anyone says ever. Apparently this quick change in direction while going around the outside of Hamilton is him deciding to move away and then instantly turning back into him.

They know this without knowing his entry speed, whether he gave it too much throttle etc etc.

To me and with my lack of those factors it just looks like he did what he has done so many times, looked utterly average wheel to wheel and over cooked it.

 

[m4rk84]

Exactly people are getting bent out of shape on a conversation we don't know anything about the context of how something was said or how heated it was. How Rosberg is, you can just imagine him saying **** you I did it on purpose if it was a heated as hinted by Wolff.

Then Hamilton has come out and said that to the press. Wolff has changed the context of how it was said but it's too late. Poorly handled all round by Mercedes management but mostly by Rosberg because he has the hump.

Horner must be laughing his backside off.

Toto attempted some media control after the fact. You only have to look as far as Toto and Lauda's reaction right after the race to see exactly where all of the blame is focused it's very clear they are upset with Rosberg.

Why would they be upset with him if it was just a racing incident and he did nothing wrong?

Typical OcUK Hamilton hate crew in full effect though, ignoring the facts to push the anti-Hamilton bandwagon.

 

[Jono8]

Pretty much and it won't matter what anyone says ever. Apparently this quick change in direction while going around the outside of Hamilton is him deciding to move away and then instantly turning back into him.

They know this without knowing his entry speed, whether he gave it too much throttle etc etc.

To me and with my lack of those factors it just looks like he did what he has done so many times, looked utterly average wheel to wheel and over cooked it.

He clearly thought about taking the run off (like vettel did on the previous lap when he tried to pull a similar "no hope" move) but then he either thought "na i will just keep at it and hope Hamilton moves over for me" or he tried to slot back in behind him and made an absolute balls up job of it.

It was a very clumsy and unnecessary move to make. He literally had no hope of getting past Hamilton through that chicane.

 

[englishpremier]

So it seems Rosberg didn't deliberately cause an accident. He just didn't avoid one (to prove a point). The difference is huge. I'm not sure the FIA can do anything, it's a racing incident.

Why would they be upset with him if it was just a racing incident and he did nothing wrong?

Typical OcUK Hamilton hate crew in full effect though, ignoring the facts to push the anti-Hamilton bandwagon.

Because they don't want their cars racing each other and causing an incident in the first few laps. That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything other than being a bit of a muppet for not following team instructions and for not taking action to avoid an incident.

 

[Cavallino]

So it seems Rosberg didn't deliberately cause an accident. He just didn't avoid one (to prove a point). The difference is huge. I'm not sure the FIA can do anything, it's a racing incident.



Because they don't want their cars racing each other and causing an incident in the first few laps. That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything other than being a bit of a muppet for not following team instructions and for not taking action to avoid an incident.

Er... if he admitted that he was aware of not avoiding the accident, then that in itself is an admission that he was aware that a collision was imminent and ergo an accident will be caused.

 

[Jono8]

It was a move that smacked of desperation. He knew full well that if he didn't get him early on in that lap, he probably stood very little chance of getting by him for the rest of the race and knew Lewis would get the pit stop preference being ahead as well. Lewis had been clearly faster in the dry all weekend so Rosberg knew that his chances of winning after that **** poor start were very slim.

To be honest Rosberg, you should have just made a better start son

 

[dannyjo22]

Toto attempted some media control after the fact. You only have to look as far as Toto and Lauda's reaction right after the race to see exactly where all of the blame is focused it's very clear they are upset with Rosberg.

Why would they be upset with him if it was just a racing incident and he did nothing wrong?

Typical OcUK Hamilton hate crew in full effect though, ignoring the facts to push the anti-Hamilton bandwagon.

They were upset because he caused the crash, you are debating something that's not even an issue. No one is blaming hamilton or the reasons why they were angry when they were interviewed. It was Rosbergs fault, his rookie pass attempt caused them to lose points. It's got nothing to do with Hamilton hate, but it seems to upset the more Pro Hamilton fans whenever anyone slightly disagree with them. Maybe that's an issue with you rather than them hating. Typical of this place, so black and white.

He clearly thought about taking the run off (like vettel did on the previous lap when he tried to pull a similar "no hope" move) but then he either thought "na i will just keep at it and hope Hamilton moves over for me" or he tried to slot back in behind him and made an absolute balls up job of it..

You can't know that from an onboard shot of him sawing at the wheel in a fraction of a second. All you know is the output without any of the inputs. We don't know anything about the grip level, speed, how much he was braking or accelerating. Until then or the team or FIA investigate that and make it public he was just trying to keep it on the road after a botched pass.

No one is really debating whether it was Hamiltons fault, it wasn't.

 

[Danthus]

So it seems Rosberg didn't deliberately cause an accident. He just didn't avoid one (to prove a point). The difference is huge. I'm not sure the FIA can do anything, it's a racing incident.



Because they don't want their cars racing each other and causing an incident in the first few laps. That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything other than being a bit of a muppet for not following team instructions and for not taking action to avoid an incident.

lol

 

[m4rk84]

Because they don't want their cars racing each other and causing an incident in the first few laps. That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything other than being a bit of a muppet for not following team instructions and for not taking action to avoid an incident.

Mercedes have said numerous times their drivers can race each-other if they are cautious about it. Knowingly failing to pull out of a collision is the exact same thing as intentionally driving into Hamilton.

Whether Rosberg turns into him or not is completely irrelevant I don't even know why it's a point of conversation. He knowingly stayed where he was in the manoeuvre whilst there was zero chance of him getting past, hes a pro he knows fully where the racing line is and he put his car in the way of it.

 

[Danthus]

The fact that Mercedes have said that Hamiltons version of the story is "broadly accurate" tells you all you need to know.

 

[Locky]

So it seems Rosberg didn't deliberately cause an accident. He just didn't avoid one (to prove a point).

Hes still a cheat..

 

[deuse]

So it seems Rosberg didn't deliberately cause an accident. He just didn't avoid one (to prove a point). The difference is huge. I'm not sure the FIA can do anything, it's a racing incident.

cause and effect.

The FIA can(if they want to) get the stewards back together and re-look in to it. But I don't think they will.

Well that's unless Bernie has a word with the FIA which would put bums on seats.

 

[dannyjo22]

So when Jacques stuffed his car up the inside of MS at Jerez. He was going too fast for the corner. If MS hadn't hit him he would have sailed on. By his own admission when he stuffed it up the inside off the the racing line he said he knew MS would crash into him if MS took the racing line.

Jacques could have avoided that incident by not making a pass attempt that he couldn't have made cleanly? Someone ring the FIA!!!

 

[englishpremier]

It's the difference between premeditated murder and manslaughter.

In terms of F1 it's maybe a race ban for the first and a few places grid pentaly for the other

 

[Locky]

The Hamilton hate here is strong, The German could have followed Hamilton in (to make a point) and they would still defend the dirty German.

 

[Duke]

He clearly thought about taking the run off (like vettel did on the previous lap when he tried to pull a similar "no hope" move) but then he either thought "na i will just keep at it and hope Hamilton moves over for me" or he tried to slot back in behind him and made an absolute balls up job of it.

It was a very clumsy and unnecessary move to make. He literally had no hope of getting past Hamilton through that chicane.

Because they don't want their cars racing each other and causing an incident in the first few laps. That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything other than being a bit of a muppet for not following team instructions and for not taking action to avoid an incident.

This and this.

 

[dannyjo22]

The Hamilton hate here is strong, The German could have followed Hamilton in (to make a point) and they would still defend the dirty German.

It really isn't, the fanboyism more than balances it out. That you chose to call Rosberg 'The German' probably tells us more about your prejudices than Hamilton haters.

There is no Hamilton hate, next to none at all from anyone. All anyone is debating is whether Rosberg did deliberately cause a crash which has no bearing what so ever on hamilton who did nothing wrong. Quite how that has transpired into Hamilton hate

 

[m4rk84]

It was Rosbergs fault, his rookie pass attempt caused them to lose points. It's got nothing to do with Hamilton hate, but it seems to upset the more Pro Hamilton fans whenever anyone slightly disagree with them. Maybe that's an issue with you rather than them hating. Typical of this place, so black and white.

You have changed your tune since earlier during the race anyway where your opinion was:

If it was reversed this forum would be telling you that Rosberg shouldn't have moved over if he was in the lead. Nothing more than a racing incident, happens all the time. No big deal.

Which is pretty clearly not the case, as by your admission it's very clear where the blame should lie. You don't see the Hamilton hate because you're full of it.

 

[cu3ed]

It really isn't, the fanboyism more than balances it out. That you chose to call Rosberg 'The German' probably tells us more about your prejudices than Hamilton haters.

There is no Hamilton hate, next to none at all from anyone. All anyone is debating is whether Rosberg did deliberately cause a crash which has no bearing what so ever on hamilton who did nothing wrong. Quite how that has transpired into Hamilton hate

Your not seeing it from anyone cause its mostly streaming from you.

You have flip flopped and tried to change the argument so many times I have lost count.