Belgian Grand Prix 2014, Spa-Francorchamps - Race 12/19

justbeats said:
How did Hamilton try and force Rosberg over and push him out? Hamilton was a car length ahead and planted right on the correct racing line. He was exactly where he should have been at that exact point in time. Rosberg was the one off line and behind and acting like a nob.

I'm simply amazed people are saying Hamilton was party to the incident, the guy did absolutely nothing wrong.
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Hamilton ran all the way out to the curb with Rosberg next to him, FIA rules state that there was a significant portion of the car next to him, if Rosberg wasn't next to him there wouldn't have been a collision.

The incident was 50/50, both drivers could have avoided the collision, Rosberg had the greatest opportunity to avoid it, but he was entitled to try and make a pass.
 
Therein lies the problem. That rule doesn't apply to corners. It applies to straights, and is the regulation Magnussen was penalised for.

It doesn't apply to corners, where the racing line takes priority. People thinking it does is half the problem. Youd think the first line saying "defending his position on a straight" would be enough, but clearly not, as people do what Alienfish has just done and ignore it, presume (incorrectly) that it applies to mid corner moves, and then builds a long winded yet completely fictional "factual" situation based on rules that don't exist. And then spend ages defending their "factual" situation instead of realizing their mistake.
 
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As a Hamilton fan myself the biggest injustice is the fact this even happened. I want to see him smash Rosberg into the ground and make a clear mark that he is one of the best drivers in F1 today.

We the fans lost out yesterday because of an absolutely stupid decision by Rosberg that ultimately benefitted him.

As an F1 fan I am upset. Not just as a Hamilton fan.

Apart from that, it was an amazing race. Ricciardo is a legend in the making. It is really hard not to like him!
 
Alienfish360 said:
Hamilton ran all the way out to the curb with Rosberg next to him, FIA rules state that there was a significant portion of the car next to him, if Rosberg wasn't next to him there wouldn't have been a collision.

The incident was 50/50, both drivers could have avoided the collision, Rosberg had the greatest opportunity to avoid it, but he was entitled to try and make a pass.
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Hamilton took the racing line, and was always ahead. Rosberg was not in away way ahead of him in the braking zone, simply braked a lot later than Hamilton (but still never got ahead of him) and then tried to take him on the outside of the start of a chicane. It was a move that had no chance of coming off and the onus was completely on Rosberg.
 
I think the FIA should review this (they won't )
Schumacher was excluded from the championship for a similar thing. If you watch his stearing input, he understears away and then makes a conscious move to the right, very similar to Schumi.

For those that don't know, Schumi in a Ferrari was fighting with J Villeneuve in a Williams at Jerez I think.

Schumi was a lot further along side than Rosberg.
 
Skeeter said:
Therein lies the problem. That rule doesn't apply to corners. It applies to straights, and is the regulation Magnussen was penalised for.

It doesn't apply to corners, where the racing line takes priority. People thinking it does is half the problem. Youd think the first line saying "defending his position on a straight" would be enough, but clearly not, as people do what Alienfish has just done and ignore it, presume (incorrectly) that it applies to mid corner moves, and then builds a long winded yet completely fictional "factual" situation based on rules that don't exist. And then spend ages defending their "factual" situation instead of realizing their mistake.
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Are you entirely stupid? Or did you ignore what I said on purpose? I stated before that it is not for a corner, but I'd imagine a similar statement for corners, but cannot find it yet.

However, I do KNOW that the FIA do NOT specify the "correct racing line", every driver is entitled to take their own line through any corner.

Drivers should not be punished for tiny little incidents like this, it is racing, as Senna said "if you no longer go for a gap, you're no longer a racing driver".

Rosberg attempted a pass that relied on Hamilton backing down, he didn't, and there was a collision. Many drivers have relied on this tactic, Hamilton himself has relied on that tactic and psychological game, and eventually there will be an incident, it is part of racing.
 
The stewards made a rod for their own back by not even investigating it during the race. We have seen loads of similar incidents get investigated and penalised.

They reopened the Perez Massa incident on new evidence, but I'm not sure they can reopen something that never existed.
 
justbeats said:
Hamilton was racing nobody except himself, we missed nothing exciting from him. He should have parked it earlier to preserve his engine and components, especially as he burned them all 4 weeks ago and is a whole lot down on Rosberg.
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Was more of a general statement than a specific one. I fully understand why the teams do it but I'd much rather they all came over the line at the end of a race rather than having half the field parked up to save half a dozen laps worth of engine wear. I can understand them choosing to run a lower boost or limit revs (not so much this year) to reduce wear but to park them just seems wrong to me.

By the time you account for practice and qualifying the percentage of mileage saving is quite small anyway.
 
Alienfish360 said:
Are you entirely stupid? Or did you ignore what I said on purpose? I stated before that it is not for a corner, but I'd imagine a similar statement for corners, but cannot find it yet.
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And you won't. Its a rule for straights. It was introduced after Rosberg pushed a couple of people wide in Bahrain a couple of years ago.

But if you want to keep banging that drum based in a rule "you can't find" then go ahead, your just proving my point about people being too proud to acknowledge their mistake and instead defend their ever collapsing argument until the next race comes around and they can find something else to missunderstand and then defend blindly.

Yep. I'm the stupid one. :rolleyes:

Edit: actually, I'm just fueling your trolling so maybe I am the fool. Have fun finding your non existent rules.
 
Erm. Since when was a bit of the front wing a significant portion of the car? Personally I'm of the "halfway alongside or it was a speculative lunge" school of thought. Can see why it's there to avoid crowding people off the track on a straight. It'll never stick for overtaking into a corner.
 
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Slam62 said:
I think the FIA should review this (they won't )
Schumacher was excluded from the championship for a similar thing. If you watch his stearing input, he understears away and then makes a conscious move to the right, very similar to Schumi.
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They would have to consider the data on that though, he could have been steering into oversteer and as DC said, from that point he wouldn't have been able to see his front wing relative to Hamilton's tyre.

I can't imagine Nico deliberately ramming his team mate. That would be very different to, what appears to be stated during the meeting, that he picked his line and stuck with it no matter what the consequences. The latter is daft on lap two when you are racing your team mate, the former is indefensible IMO.
 
lordrobs said:
They would have to consider the data on that though, he could have been steering into oversteer and as DC said, from that point he wouldn't have been able to see his front wing relative to Hamilton's tyre.

I can't imagine Nico deliberately ramming his team mate. That would be very different to, what appears to be stated during the meeting, that he picked his line and stuck with it no matter what the consequences. The latter is daft on lap two when you are racing your team mate, the former is indefensible IMO.
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Indeed. He was stubborn and stupid rather than malicious. Trying to psych out Lewis by saying he did it deliberately also back fired. All in all a rather unintelligent Sunday for Rosberg, but he's 29 points ahead, so...
 
MarcLister said:
Mercedes plan to wait until everyone has calmed down before taking any action.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28925460

I bet Mercedes wish there were more than two weeks before the Italian GP. :D
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What action can they take?

Fine? Like Rosberg gives a damn, hes loaded. They can't stop him from racing as they want the points and trophies. Stopping him from taking part in a qualy? Who cares, the car would come 2nd anyway.
 
I actually watched the Belgian GP this weekend.

Fortunately it was a tape of the '92 Belgian GP, so I got to miss out on F1 fandom (or should that be fandumb?) going full retard.

Happy days!

:):p:D

I did see The Incident™ on TV in the pub, of course (saw most of the opening three laps) - a situation so boringly predictable that I'm amazed the Mercedes team management could bear to turn up to watch it all unfold on raceday. Got to be pretty galling to know that you have a car that is light years ahead of the rest of the field, and yet Dan Ricciardo in a starting money special (by their recent standards) of a Red Bull could yet nick the drivers title out from underneath Hamilton and Rosberg just by being there to pick up the pieces when those two do something stupid.

Time for team orders in the Merc camp?
 
MarcLister said:
Mercedes plan to wait until everyone has calmed down before taking any action.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28925460

I bet Mercedes wish there were more than two weeks before the Italian GP. :D
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OK, let's play devils advocate.

It sounds like they are going to apply team order to nullify the race. Looking at how other teams have done this in the past, they can either:
Favour the championship leader, Rosberg.
Favour whoever qualifies higher, which recently has been Rosberg
Or call off the racing after the final pit stops, which doesn't solve 2nd lap crashes.

The conspiracy theorist will love these :p.
 
Alienfish360 said:
Hamilton ran all the way out to the curb with Rosberg next to him, FIA rules state that there was a significant portion of the car next to him, if Rosberg wasn't next to him there wouldn't have been a collision.

The incident was 50/50, both drivers could have avoided the collision, Rosberg had the greatest opportunity to avoid it, but he was entitled to try and make a pass.
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When the contact was made there was not a significant portion of Rosberg's car alongside, as they came past the apex it was just the front wing along the rear wheel and there is absolutely no imperative at all to leave space, Rosberg would have needed his front wing coming out of that corner to be pretty much half way alongside Hamilton's car... it wasn't. It's a right hand turn. Just because people want it to be so you can't magically turn tighter than the car allows. As you turn through a right the car will swing out to the left of the track. Has anyone ever hugged the inside line of the straight following that corner, never, because the cars can't. Hamilton was turning right as much as the car allowed the whole time, there was no possibility to turn tighter. Had he tried he would have either lost the back end grip and hit Rosberg, or he could have slowed down to turn tighter, in doing so he would have caused Rosberg to hit him.

Turning left or reducing how tight you were turning right were the only options, with a car on your outside the inside car CAN'T do this as it causes contact, the outside car can do this easily. Rosberg could have moved to his left, Hamilton couldn't, Hamilton couldn't turn any further to his right, nor slow down, Hamilton had absolutely no options at all.

Rosberg could have slowed and wouldn't have caused a collision, he could have turned to his left, and not caused a collision, he could have stayed the way he was going and not caused a collision... instead he turned right with 100% chance of causing a collision.

Senna said not going for a gap is no longer racing, he did NOT say going for a gap that doesn't exist is racing, or that not going for a gap that doesn't exist is racing. Down the straight, fine, he never had the overtake once they turned in, hitting the apex there was NO gap regardless of what Rosberg says.
 
It's an F1 race thread, of course they're still at it. This will be rumbling on until the entrenched arguments continue in the thread for the next race. :D
 
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