Belgium Grand Prix 2013, Spa-Francorchamps - Race 11/19

[sunama]

Well, RBR and Merc requested stronger, more robust and predictable tyres.
They delivered.
And you are now seeing the results.
In general, we should see faster teams win more races, in a more predictable fashion.

At the beginning of last year, we saw different drivers win races, which was primarily down to the fact that the tyres were not predictable and the rich teams couldn't quite get their heads around how the tyres would behave. This allowed cars from smaller teams to beat the richer teams.

IMO, the WDC is effectively over, barring a crazy accident or a series of DNFs for Vettel. Stranger things have happened, though.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Although he has had the odd incident over the last few years, Vettel has been incredibly 'lucky' when it comes to failures/crashes leading to DNFs or reduced points.

I say 'lucky' because a lot of the time you make your own luck and the team have been incredibly consistent but it seems most of the bad luck has gone Webber's way. This isn't a conspiracy theory, just an observation.

It would only take some of Vettel's luck to run out with a couple of DNFs or low-points finishes and the title race would be back on (assuming Alonso or Hamilton capitalised).

Having said that, I don't think it's very likely – Vettel, his car and the RBR team on his side of the garage are just too consistent.

It will be interesting to see how the RBR and Mercedes compare at Monza and Singapore which are both different circuits to Spa.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

How many times has Vettel DNF'd in the last 4 years, and how many times has that race been won by a championship contender?

So often, we see Vettel collect a win from Hamilton car failure, but I can't recall more than. 2 occasions when it's been reversed.

 

[el_dazza]

Vettel:

2013 races inherited: 0, lost: 1 (Britain)
2012 won: 1 (Singapore from Hamilton), lost: 1 (Europe to Alonso)
2011 won: 0, lost: potentially 1 (was on pole and picked up a puncture at turn 1 in Korea)
2010 won: 0, lost: 2 (Bahrain to Alonso, Australia to Button)

Won 1, lost 4.. maybe 5

Have I missed any obvious ones in those 4 seasons? 90% of his wins are lights-to-flag wins without any incidents benefitting him

 

[Skyboat]

Vettel:

2013 races inherited: 0, lost: 1 (Britain)
2012 won: 1 (Singapore from Hamilton), lost: 1 (Europe to Alonso)
2011 won: 0, lost: potentially 1 (was on pole and picked up a puncture at turn 2 in Abu Dhabi, he already clinched the WDC by then though)
2010 won: 0, lost: 2 (Bahrain to Alonso, Australia to Button)

Fixed

 

[JonnyT]

Very dull race by Spa standards. Agree that the WDC is all but over,, as it will take some not-so-minor miracle for the gap to be overhauled by Alonso now.

The worst thing about the whole Vettel 'scampering off' into the distance and doing a lights-to-flag victory is it's all too easy for him and oh so predicable. Time and again he does a mighty first couple of laps, builds up enough gap to be out of DRS range and that's it.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Fixed

I haven't looked through it in any detail but the one thing that does leap to mind is Silverstone this year.

Yes, Vettel lost the race win to Rosberg (not a title contender) but also bear in mind that he was only in a winning position because Hamilton had already suffered a tyre failure and lost his pole position.

Alonso could only manage third so even when he does DNF, his two closest title rivals miss out on the big points.

 

[smr]

Jenson won't be going to rb. And by the time Honda come and get settled in jenson will be out of F1.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...o-sign-a-new-three-year-contract-with-mclaren

 

[JeditOjanen]

Very dull race by Spa standards. Agree that the WDC is all but over,, as it will take some not-so-minor miracle for the gap to be overhauled by Alonso now.

The worst thing about the whole Vettel 'scampering off' into the distance and doing a lights-to-flag victory is it's all too easy for him and oh so predicable. Time and again he does a mighty first couple of laps, builds up enough gap to be out of DRS range and that's it.

And then gets booed on the podium, because he is now the most hated F1 driver of all time.

 

[EddScott]

And then gets booed on the podium, because he is now the most hated F1 driver of all time.

Really? More than MS?

Personally I don't think he deserves being booed. He's been a bit naughty but he's still the young lad that likes a joke that many thought was refreshing to see until he started winning so comprehensively.

 

[smr]

I don't really have a problem with Seb, yeah the races where he sails away into the distance are a bit boring but if any other driver could be doing that they would - as Lewis demonstrated in Hungary...

I wonder if people would be moaning so much if it was Lewis doing it instead

 

[Spuj]

Really? More than MS?

Personally I don't think he deserves being booed. He's been a bit naughty but he's still the young lad that likes a joke that many thought was refreshing to see until he started winning so comprehensively.

Don't read to much into what that guy says, nearly all his posts in F1 threads are bashing Vettel in some way.

 

[DampCat]

I dislike Vettel for two main reasons.

1. I've always been a Webber fan, he's probably my favourite on the track. That stolen win was just insane.
2. He really looks like somebody i really, really hate.

 

[Skeeter]

Really? More than MS?

Personally I don't think he deserves being booed. He's been a bit naughty but he's still the young lad that likes a joke that many thought was refreshing to see until he started winning so comprehensively.

Having been there and felt the atmosphere, its not a hatred for him, its more a feeling of boredom. It wasn't an angry outburst when he got provisional pole, it was a collective groan of disappointment. And the same again when he passed Lewis. Its very different to the anger and spite shown towards Hamilton a few years back by the Spanish and Alonso fans.

A lot of people keep saying "oh its because of what he did in Malaysia", but I genuinely think that has nothing to do with it. People are just bored of him winning everything and making the sport dull at the front.

Nobody was angry Vettel won, but most people seemed to want someone (anyone) else to win.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Really? More than MS?

Personally I don't think he deserves being booed. He's been a bit naughty but he's still the young lad that likes a joke that many thought was refreshing to see until he started winning so comprehensively.

I don't really have a problem with Seb, yeah the races where he sails away into the distance are a bit boring but if any other driver could be doing that they would - as Lewis demonstrated in Hungary...

I wonder if people would be moaning so much if it was Lewis doing it instead

I don't have a problem with Seb – I'd like someone else to win but credit where credit's due.

While I'd like to see Hamilton winning more, I do think I'd get bored if it was constant lights-to-flag victories by huge margins.

In Hungary it was only because JB held up the rest of the pack that the gap was so big. I don't think Lewis' win would have been so cut-and-dry had that not happened.

e:

Nobody was angry Vettel won, but most people seemed to want someone (anyone) else to win.

+1million to Skeeter's last post.

 

[smr]

It's not really Vettel's fault though - providing you don't have a problem with his persona and it's just the racing that you're not enjoying because of him... if anyone is to blame it's Adrian Newey

 

[Irish_Tom]

It's not really Vettel's fault though - providing you don't have a problem with his persona and it's just the racing that you're not enjoying because of him... if anyone is to blame it's Adrian Newey

And the other teams for not being able to match his designs.

 

[Skeeter]

And the other teams for not being able to match his designs.

This, sort of, lol.

I was thinking about this at the weekend when people were saying the 3 best drivers in the world were on the podium. And then in the same breath people say Vettel is just average and flattered by the car. How can this be?

Alonso and Hamilton are widely regarded as the best drivers in the sport. McLaren and Ferrari are the 2 best, most successful and well resourced teams in F1. Yet, even after 5 years (including 2009) of hard work, none of them were able to beat Vettel and RBR. Its not like Vettel is winning by default because he is unchallenged. Ferrari/Alonso and McLaren/Hamilton were both combinations that on paper should have dominated. But they didn't.

Of course there are other factors going on, team changes, driver changes, etc. But I do not understand how Alonso and Hamilton can be regarded as the absolute best, yet the guy who has consistently beaten them for the last 5 years only be considered average.

 

[dannyjo22]

Vettel is just the equivalent of what would have happened had Villeneuve joined Williams earlier. Or Williams had not lost Newey. He could easily have racked up 3 or 4 titles on the trot but that wouldn't have made him the best driver in F1.

Just fortunate to land in the team at the right time, with the right engine and design team. The same could easily have happened to Alesi in the early 90's. If he had not turned down Williams for Ferrari Alesi would be talked about as a 3 time champion or more. That wouldn't have made him any better than he was he would have just been luckier than he turned out in car choice.

All I think with Vettel is do I think if the roles where reversed he would be winning as many races over the last few years as Alonso. I don't.

Do I think he would be taking the title as close were the roles reversed. I don't.

Not many do and that's why I think at least Alonso is more highly rated by the masses than Vettel. That and when Vettel is genuinely put under pressure he caves and Alonso rarely does even when put under pressure by someone like MS in a faster car.

I don't think we will ever truely know how fast Vettel is because like MS we are unlikely to ever see him matched with a team mate who can race him with no orders etc. All we really know for sure is if you want multiple titles race for Newey.

 

[smr]

This, sort of, lol.

I was thinking about this at the weekend when people were saying the 3 best drivers in the world were on the podium. And then in the same breath people say Vettel is just average and flattered by the car. How can this be?

Alonso and Hamilton are widely regarded as the best drivers in the sport. McLaren and Ferrari are the 2 best, most successful and well resourced teams in F1. Yet, even after 5 years (including 2009) of hard work, none of them were able to beat Vettel and RBR. Its not like Vettel is winning by default because he is unchallenged. Ferrari/Alonso and McLaren/Hamilton were both combinations that on paper should have dominated. But they didn't.

Of course there are other factors going on, team changes, driver changes, etc. But I do not understand how Alonso and Hamilton can be regarded as the absolute best, yet the guy who has consistently beaten them for the last 5 years only be considered average.

you say that but look at how many strategic/pit stop **** ups Mclaren had in 2010/2011 for example... and how many RBR had. I can't remember the last time they utterly ******* up in the pits for instance.