Barbie said:
my point it is actually reconmended by the RSPCA and other cat organisations plus all the cat books I have read that you dont let your cat out unless you can ensure it is going to be safe and wont get out onto a road where it can get run over and hurt or killed
Fair enough dude, i didn't know that. Seems quite reasonable being as it would be hard for the RSPCA to know the history of every specific animal, and its capabilities in a real world environment. Though you will find that a creature with a natural instinct for self preservation such as the cat will normally steer clear of giant speeding 2 tonne bullets.
Barbie said:
I was told Sheba would have to be kept in as a house cat due to her temperment
sounds about right, i'm sure that there are cats who have been raised indoors, and maybe on top of that are of a nervous disposition. These cats will of course prefere to stay inside, where it's nice and quiete/safe/happy.
Barbie said:
On top of that I dont want our cats fighting other cats and getting hurt or ill most cat illnesses are passed on though cat fights or sexual encountors of course ours our vacinated but even still even vacinations cant keep them fully safe from all cat illnessess.
No idea whether you guys have kids, but i mean, would you treat a child like this?.. "No school, too dangerous.. Germs". Kinda smacks of Howard Hughes. Of course there's a risk of catching a desease (A close friend is studying to become a vet, she surprised me recently by telling me scary stories about the cat aids epedemic), but these are risks which are part and parcel of a 'real existence'. When i walk through the door in the morning i don't know whether i'm going to be bored to death or hit by a bus, but i still leave the house.
Barbie said:
Indoor play can be as stimulating after all they are doing exactly the same things ie poncing, running, jumping, climbing etc as they would outside so how is it any different?
How's it any different??.. How many different scenarios or opportunities for interaction can you supply every day?, i would wager not as many as the great outdoors. Fair enough you buy a ball on a piece of string, you swing it for 20 mins, you get tired of it, the cat gets tired of it, and you feel all warm and fuzzy. But outside it doesnt happen like that. The cat will wonder around constantly surveying its territory and finding new adventures. Spot a bird = 20 minutess of chase, spot a mouse and it can go on for hours and so on. My own cats will find an infinate number of things in the garden. Unless you spend all day every day in the house petting and playing with the cats there's no way you can compare the levels of adventure and opportunity for development.
Barbie said:
How is it cruel to look after our cats and prevent them from getting hurt, ill, stolen or worse by keeping them inside and providing them with loads of toys and stuff to play with inside?
Because you're screwing with nature. It's no different from forcing a bear to dance on the end of a chain!. Bear goes outside, it might die. Bear stays on end of chain, bear lives longer??, same thing?. Beh.
A cat should learn to defend itself, to hunt and to be excited. Cats are sensory creatures, it needs to smell, see and touch things. New things every day.
Barbie said:
On top of which we are harness and lead training our cats so that we can let them experiance the outside world in a controled safe way ( Our shadow gets to climb trees if she wants to when we go out each day )
To me that just seems insane.. It sounds like a monty python sketch. It's a cat for gods sake. I mean, what do you do?, allow a bit of slack on the lead?.
Barbie said:
So how are cat owners who keep their loved pets indoors cruel when they provide a safe and fun place to play and live?
I would imagine that if the cats had been (maybe even the nervous cat) given the option to roam in and outdoors regularly and from an early age the cats would choose to spend a great amount of time outdoors, away from leads and balls and twine. This is something that you've taken away from them (one of them at least), and that's cruel in my opinion, regardless of what you see as safe and lovely.
Barbie said:
Yeah right they have the sence to stay out of the road thats why so many get killed and hurt by cars each year isnt it?
This is unfortunate. I hit a cat once (the only living creature i've ever hit *touch wood*) at about 2am whilst going about 40 (on an NSL road), i stopped and though he ran off i presume he would have died later. But this is just a fact of life, that particular cat didnt hear me coming, and didnt move out of the way, and believe me i'm totally on the side of the pedestrian in most cases. But from a cat you expect a little more. A well adapted cat will move out of the way a long long time before a car gets near. Of course it's a worry when your cat is playing near a main road, similar to if a human was. But you have to trust the instinct of the cat, as you would the human (the cat more so really due to its hightened senses).
Barbie said:
"catch birds and mice" So decimating wildlife and exposing them selfves to parasites is meant to be good for cats is it?
Actually yes. 'decimating wildlife' is infact totally natural to a cat. The cat is a predator, the mouse is prey. This is nature.
As for being subjected to germs and parasites, again totally natural. The reason i don't die when i catch a cold is because i have been subjected to this from an early age, and cultured a certain amount of immunity.
Barbie said:
"Cats like to hunt, wander and explore. None of that is possible in house." Of course it is they just hunt their toys ( or flies and spiders in shadows case )
No you see it really isnt. A cat isnt hunting a ball of twine, it's chasing something that you're dangling, there's a big big difference. And the reason Shadow chases flies and spiders is because this is natural to her. If she was outdoors she would spend a lot of time doing that. And would most likely get far more enjoyment than through chasing the odd spider.
Barbie said:
In this weather all cats want to do is sleep and rest its to hot for them to do anything else they cant sweat like we do and dont pant like dogs do to keep cool and inside is cooler than outside.
I'll buy that to a degree. Though our cats have the option of sleeping in the sun or sleeping indoors they generally do choose to be indoors.
Barbie said:
and if keeping our pets safe is cruel then what the hell is not keeping them safe?
Natural?.
I don't want to offend you, so please don't take it that way. But in my opinion(TM) it is a little cruel to take that which is natural away from a cat.
P.S. Sorry for de-railing this further penski, no offence intended. You always seem like a good chap and i share many tastes with you
.
how long would they keep him before he was not economically economically viable and destroyed him?