Bengals...

[Vonhelmet]

If a family drives upto the kennels but admit they live on busy road the life expectacy might be 6 months, so they wouldn't want to refuse them unless they have a bad history with pets.

I can't speak for the RSPCA, but the shelter we got our cat from were very hesitant to give us a cat because we live near a main road.

As for the whole cruel-to-keep-them-indoors thing... So long as they are adequately stimulated, it's not a big deal. Keep them occupied and give them stuff to do and things to play with and it's all good. I read a good book about cats by a sort of cat psychologist who deals with behaviour problems in cats, who had no complaints about people keeping cats in doors, so long as they were entertained. Sure, for some people that meant turning an entire room over to be turned into a play area for the cat, but if they're happy at the end of it, then that's cool.

It's also worth noting that in Penski's case, there are two cats, so they will have plenty of opportunity to keep each other company and entertain themselves.

 

[penski]

I agree 100% what benneh said above, as he's expanded and gone into further detail what I said earlier.

One reason the RSPCA say a cat can stay indoors is to give them a home, any adequate home...it's better than no home at all (and they can't leave them in the shelter) If a family drives upto the kennels but admit they live on busy road the life expectacy might be 6 months, so they wouldn't want to refuse them unless they have a bad history with pets. Not many people have time or live in a location to look after a indoor & outdoor pet (dog/cat) as much as it needs. ie most people leave dogs alone all day inside with no one to play with...the owners only arrive at 7pm, quick player before dinner and bed, and that's it. Cruel IMO. If it were a child, child services would have been called a long time ago

As for Barbie all your points are quite short sighted, I think you're trying to persuade yourself you are providing the most satisfying enviroment for your cat, unfortuantly you're not. Very safe, but very boring. You can't provide a cat a few toys and expect it to be entairtained for years on end in the same location, looking in the same house, same toys, same smells. ie my cat was sleeeping and awoke to find 5 birds nearby. You won't get that randomness inside with toys. Cats like to change sleeping places also, sometimes under a tree, in flowers, on the lawn, on sheds.. I certainly wouldn't like to be kept locked up inside a house for 80 years, even if I do have a lot of indoor "boys toys" ie computers, films, radio etc etc. Cats do suffer from boredom.

You can't keep using anthropomorphic projection to cats; they do not have the same brains as humans and they do not have the same requirements as humans. To do so is rather churlish. They are an essentially 'wild' animal that still responds to basic stimuli; Cats sleep for most of their day with a dozen or so short bursts of energy (for 'hunting').

Tie a few ribbons of newspaper to a length of string and lead the string around the room along a random (and differing) path. Sit down and pull the string slowly in a jerky motion, replicating a mouse scurrying along skirting boards, under and over chairs, tables, down narrow cracks. The cat will respond to this basic stimuli by going into 'hunting' mode and stalking the newspaper. The random path ensures variation and the cat gets both mental stimulation and exercise.

As long as you are inventive, an indoor cat needn't be 'deprived' in any way.

I agree that if you give an indoor cat a scratching post and a catnip mouse to play with and leave them too it then they will not live a content and enriched life.

However, indoor cats with inventive and differing means to play can be as constantly challenged and aware as they could be outside.

Your comment about a 'constantly evolving environment' does not hold water; most outdoor cats have a rather limited territory and, other than the wind blowing a crisp bag about, the environment does not change much at all.

*n

 

[penski]

Tbh, neither of them show all that much interest in 'outdoors' except when the local ferral tom comes around swingin' his balls and marking his stuff hehe.

Both my girlfriends' old cat and my old cat had open houses in the summer; if someone was in the house, doors and windows would be left wide open, giving them free reign if they wanted it.

Both cats chose to sunbathe outside then come back inside to eat and to play (my cat - he was only 5) or to cool down (my girlfriends' cat - nearly 18).

Obviously () by playing with my cat indoors, I was being cruel and not allowing it to follow it's instincts, yadda yadda yadda.

I brought my old cat up as an indoor cat; we often had the windows and doors open but it never showed any interest in the outside world (other than when summer came and the patio was flooded with sunshine all day). It chose to play inside. If you threw a ball of rolled up paper near it outside, it'd just watch it. If you did it inside, it would start playing with it.

*n

 

[Vonhelmet]

We keep our back door open all the time at the moment. Our cat spends most of the time outside. I think she sleeps in bushes most of the time, but I've really got no idea. Sometimes you see her hunting and trying to kill flies and bugs which is cool. Every now and then she comes in for something to eat, or she just wanders into the lounge, meows at you, and then wanders out again. I'm sure she just comes in to check we're still here.

 

[jumpy]

@ kitten_caboodle

here's the only one I have to hand

 

[phykell]

What penski said about projecting our own sense of what's right on the animal is spot on. I've heard here that cats will enjoy the outdoor life more than the indoor life yet right now I have my back door open and where are the cats? All upstairs asleep on the bed! Cats, like other wild animals, are driven by instinct and a cat really only needs sleep, food and sex. the latter is denied by most caring owners to help control the huge number of unwanted cats so the average cat's life is hardly "normal" anyway. So we just have food and sleep left. Sleep is no problem of course but food, that's where it gets interesting. A cat's idea of food is ideally something that moves so unless you give your cat live food, again you're denying its nature. Most caring owners don't really want to risk their cat either starving or getting diseases and infections due to having to catch their own food so they tend to feed them commercially produced food. Again, this is hardly natural for a cat is it? Those people who pat themselves on the back with the idea that they let their cat out because they don't live near a busy road should think again. Even if you're nowhere near one, it doesn't mean the cat's range doesn't include one. A cat's "territory" or the range over which it may travel can be many miles (around four square miles in fact) so the chances of your cat crossing a busy road may be quite high no matter where you live. There is also the issue of bird population and domestic cats account for a huge number of wild bird deaths across the UK especially in the breeding season. There are up to 10 million cats in the UK including ferals and of the domestic ones, the vast majority are kept simply as companions/pets. These cats can kill a huge amount of wildlife, which is made all the worse by the fact that our woodlands and rurals areas are shrinking to accomodate more people, and hence, more domestic cats. As the cat population increases, so it is more important to be aware of the effect an outdoor cat can have on wildlife. You should at least keep your cat in at night and perhaps even in the birds' breeding season if possible.

MAMMAL PREDATION

"In its 1997 survey, the Mammal Society recorded the predation habits of nearly 1,000 cats between the 1st of April and the 31st August. Those taking part were everyday cat owners who had responded to a media drive started by the BBC's Wildlife Magazine and followed up in a range of newspaper, magazine and radio articles. The results obtained were then analysed by Dr.Robbie MacDonald of Bristol University.

This survey indicated that the sample accounted for over 14,000 'kills', made up of mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians, although 66 cats killed nothing at all. Dr. MacDonald believes that if these results are coupled with other existing survey work, it shows that Britain's cat population is capable of killing a massive 250 million creatures in a year, or more than 37 prey items each.

The Mammal Society's survey concluded that cats are indeed specialists at killing mammals and, true to stereotype, over 4,000 mice were killed, putting them at the top of the list of prey species. Mice were followed by a combination of 2,000 field and bank voles, although strangely the sample accounted for only 162 rats, suggesting that most cats seem to be useless at ratting, possibly because rats will fight back!

Less common species, such as water shrews, harvest mice and yellow-necked mice, along with protected dormice (12) and water voles (20) also figure in the killing lists. The Mammal Society believes these findings show that domestic cats could be putting significant pressure on all these species, even to the point of being a major predatory threat to dormice. "

Ref: http://www.songbird-survival.org.uk/cats.html

 

[JasonO]

Question: You're not Jason Orange of Take That fame are you?

Hell no, and don't get me started on Abbey Motorsport.

 

[Logsi]

A mate of mine has 2 bengal kittens, i was shocked by how weird there meow was, they seem to like being stroked a lot but they always seemed a bit pre-occupied the whole time. One thing i noticed is that they dont like being picked up.

I have a Blue Persian called William or Willy for short, best cat ive ever had, hes 9-10 years old and still like a kitten! Im sure he jokes around with me sometimes?? lol

Heres a couple of pics!

Ontop of the shed.

William and his catfriend bunny

And a picture of a picture

 

[Stretch]

tbh, http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/br_blue.html

http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/, lol

 

[kitten_caboodle]

@ kitten_caboodle

here's the only one I have to hand

Awww he's luvverly - and flexible!

 

[Bracco]

Can I assume that all these people who insist that outdoor life is "natural" also feed a completely unprocessed diet of raw meat to their cats? Most cat foods contain corn, which is unnatural to the point of many cats actually being allergic to it - cats wouldn't sit in a field eating corn in the wild, would they?
In fact, as far as the natural argument goes, why have cats inside at all? They don't "naturally" want to socialise, or sleep in a bed, they naturally want to be outside prowling and hunting their own food.

Indoor cats are best in homes where someone is in all day, or there is at least one other pet to socialise with. As far as space is concerned, cats are actually happier with more height to climb, so a smaller home with a large cat tree and plenty of sturdy shelves etc is better than a larger one with only open space.

Penski - So long as you are giving the cats attention, and they know each other then they should be perfectly happy. Make sure you always have a couple of toys out for when you're not around. Don't change the type of food or litter until they are comfortable in your home, as so much change can make them ill.
Good luck, Bengals are awesome .

 

[Rotty]

A mate of mine has 2 bengal kittens, i was shocked by how weird there meow was, they seem to like being stroked a lot but they always seemed a bit pre-occupied the whole time. One thing i noticed is that they dont like being picked up.

yep ours hates being picked up and as you say the meow is very odd , we are used to it but when vistors come they are shocked at the noises she makes

 

[PureAppleJuice]

My cat has the choice of going indoors or out. Yet remains indoors. Personally I see no argument in saying you shouldn't let them out. I mean it might be a bit mean to not let them see the outside world, but my cat seems happier looking at it through the window

 

[Rotty]

My cat has the choice of going indoors or out. Yet remains indoors.

when we let ours out on the garden ( occasionally ) she always comes straight back in if one of us goes indoors


does anyone have any thoughts re introducing another cat into our house ( currently one 4 year old indoor female Bengal )

 

[Barbie]

Barbies girlfriend

How many different scenarios or opportunities for interaction can you supply every day?, i would wager not as many as the great outdoors. Fair enough you buy a ball on a piece of string, you swing it for 20 mins, you get tired of it, the cat gets tired of it, and you feel all warm and fuzzy. But outside it doesnt happen like that. The cat will wonder around constantly surveying its territory and finding new adventures. Spot a bird = 20 minutess of chase, spot a mouse and it can go on for hours and so on. My own cats will find an infinate number of things in the garden. Unless you spend all day every day in the house petting and playing with the cats there's no way you can compare the levels of adventure and opportunity for development.

Try cause I am in all day every day and stimulate them and play with them whenever they want me to and I find as many different things and toys I can to play with them as well they get new sights smells etc all the time I make sure of it thats the whole point of them going out on a harness and lead each day.


It's no different from forcing a bear to dance on the end of a chain!. Bear goes outside, it might die. Bear stays on end of chain, bear lives longer??, same thing?. Beh.

Thats ******** bear dancing is not a natrual thing its a trick that is taught to them and they are beaten etc to make them do it. Having cats live and play and do all the catty things indoors does not change what they do or their nature to hunt play ponce etc. They can and do get all the sencory stimulation they need indoors I make sure of it.

No idea whether you guys have kids, but i mean, would you treat a child like this?.. "No school, too dangerous.. Germs". Kinda smacks of Howard Hughes. Of course there's a risk of catching a desease (A close friend is studying to become a vet, she surprised me recently by telling me scary stories about the cat aids epedemic), but these are risks which are part and parcel of a 'real existence'. When i walk through the door in the morning i don't know whether i'm going to be bored to death or hit by a bus, but i still leave the house.

what the..... human vacines give full protection to us cat ones dont and some horrible cat illnesses cant be vacinated against. Have you seen first hand or heard from your vet student friend just how much pain and suffering feline aids causes the cat? letting a cat get ill and suffer and end up put to sleep just cause you think its ok for your cat to take the risk of getting ill? sorry but thats madness down right neglect and inresponsible pet ownership as far as I am concerned. If you have a pet you look after its health and make sure it stays well you dont let it run the risk of getting an illness that will debilitate it cause it to suffer and die.

To me that just seems insane.. It sounds like a monty python sketch. It's a cat for gods sake. I mean, what do you do?, allow a bit of slack on the lead?.

It may seem insane but at least they are safe and they are on flexy leads that can be controled so they can be kept away from cars when on a road and given the full run round when in safe areas.

I would imagine that if the cats had been (maybe even the nervous cat) given the option to roam in and outdoors regularly and from an early age the cats would choose to spend a great amount of time outdoors, away from leads and balls and twine.

oh really so how come my 11 week old kitten cried endlessly to be brought back home when we went out today if its so natraul for them to want to go out? And we dont let them play with twine its deadly for them.

A well adapted cat will move out of the way a long long time before a car gets near.

Oh really? then how come many, many times I and I am sure many others have seen cats freeze in fear in the middle of the road or run the wrong way and get hurt by cars or just not make it out of the way in time?

As for being subjected to germs and parasites, again totally natural. The reason i don't die when i catch a cold is because i have been subjected to this from an early age, and cultured a certain amount of immunity.

so you would be happy for your cat to be infested with tape worm, fleas, ticks or other such things which would gradually weaken your cat so much that it could die would you? well thats your choice but I love my cats to much to let them suffer like that. Oh and for your infomation the human immune system works differently than that of cats and cats are not so good at dealing with being ill etc.

How is providing our pets with a safe enviroment where they can play and do all the normal cat things not natrual your not changing their behaviour at all? You would not let a child run free and run the risks you let your cats run so why let the cats run the same risks? To me that is irisponsible pet ownership.

Very safe, but very boring. You can't provide a cat a few toys and expect it to be entairtained for years on end in the same location, looking in the same house, same toys, same smells.

sighs you dont get it do you they dont get just the same few toys and they get new sights and smells all the time I make sure of it. I am always inventing new games for them and introducing new toys etc. Hell they even have a catnip plant and grass etc indoors for them and I am going to be bringing in some potted catmint next payday.

Rotty do it slowly and carefully and read up bout it before hand and talk to your vet for good advice. getting them used to each others sents will be important and feeding them seprately but so they can stillsee each other also a good idea oh and you might want seprate litter trays at first as well.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Edit the swearies, barbie, or risk the banhammer.

Also, WTF, your post is hard to follow. Are you quoting people? It makes no sense.

 

[Rotty]

Rotty do it slowly and carefully and read up bout it before hand and talk to your vet for good advice. getting them used to each others sents will be important and feeding them seprately but so they can stillsee each other also a good idea oh and you might want seprate litter trays at first as well.

thanks for the advice , we would like another but really do not want to upset our current one

 

[FTM]

I would prefer it if people did keep their cats in the house

sadly a lot of cat owners let their pets roam the neighbourhood where they crap on my lawn, in my flowerbeds and wail and fight at night

a lot of people dont seem to understand what a litter tray even is!

 

[kitten_caboodle]

I would prefer it if people did keep their cats in the house

sadly a lot of cat owners let their pets roam the neighbourhood where they crap on my lawn, in my flowerbeds and wail and fight at night

a lot of people dont seem to understand what a litter tray even is!

do you live near me??

 

[Barbie]

Edit the swearies, barbie, or risk the banhammer.

Also, WTF, your post is hard to follow. Are you quoting people? It makes no sense.

That was my girlfriend posting on my computer, explains why it's not up to my usual standards.