Best, Most potential and worst signings of 2010-2011 season.

[The Running Man]

I missed one out against stoke, big whoop.

As for the others, I don't know where theres an "easy" list of champs league goals, the first list is easy from the main premierleague/fantasy football site, they don't have champs league goals so I didn't have them.

As for the ones you added, Valencia have been pretty poor this year, best of the rest in La Liga, that doesn't say much, they got trounced yesterday, again. Unless its Lyon, no french teams do well in the champs league, and wolves and Southampton "flip" the argument do they?

So what you're saying is 2 of 12 league goals came against proper top half teams, and 2 of the other 7 came against a "top" team, 3 against top half teams but not great teams, 2 against rubbish teams.

Not seeing much of a change myself.

Its not necessarily the absolute quality of the opposition but also the importance of the occasion and the result.

For example, if Bendtner had scored a hat trick against birmindham and won you the league cup, then it doesnt necessarily matter that it was just Birmingham, because we know (with hindsight) that you wouldnt have lost if he had done.

Same with the Valencia in the CL, there was no way we were going to win that game before he scored. We beat stoke 2-1. Hernandez got both goals.

That is important.

It's not like he has come on 4-0 up and bagged another he has contributed key goals at crucial times in what could be a championship winning season.

 

[BaZ87]

Not at all, I really dont see what the issue is saying he should be viewed as a signing with potential rather than one that's already this and that?

You didn't just say that though did you. You said he's being overhyped and pointed to the fact that he's only scored 2 goals as justification for that. I massively disagree with that. He's been excellent for us since he's joined and I'd go as far as to say he's been 1 of the best players in the league since he joined. His stats don't do his performances justice and to fully appreciate how good he's been you have to actually watch him play rather than look at his goal or assist stats; a couple of examples to back this up would be his performance yesterday where he was hugely involved in 3 of our goals yet only got 1 assist and against Utd where again he only got 1 assist but all 3 of our goals came from him.

Despite how good he's been, personally I'm not sure how you can judge how successful a signing is based on a few months. However I believe Purdy's point was simply that if you're going to say Luiz has been 1 of the best signings this season then Suarez should be considered in the same category.

 

[placeholder]

Despite how good he's been, personally I'm not sure how you can judge how successful a signing is based on a few months. However I believe Purdy's point was simply that if you're going to say Luiz has been 1 of the best signings this season then Suarez should be considered in the same category.

Neither should because they really havent played enough games. Suarez will be absolute class with the right players around him. David Luiz will be a liability in a Leboeuf sort of way, great footballer - dubious defender. He will need to be seriously kept in check.

 

[elmuzzy66.]

Gary neville for sky sports

 

[Tom84]

I missed one out against stoke, big whoop.

As for the others, I don't know where theres an "easy" list of champs league goals, the first list is easy from the main premierleague/fantasy football site, they don't have champs league goals so I didn't have them.

As for the ones you added, Valencia have been pretty poor this year, best of the rest in La Liga, that doesn't say much, they got trounced yesterday, again. Unless its Lyon, no french teams do well in the champs league, and wolves and Southampton "flip" the argument do they?

So what you're saying is 2 of 12 league goals came against proper top half teams, and 2 of the other 7 came against a "top" team, 3 against top half teams but not great teams, 2 against rubbish teams.

Not seeing much of a change myself.

And the two goals against Chelsea? What excuses are you going to come up with those two? Or the point about Berbatov, Tevez and Drogba's goals and the games they've came in?

Give up your argument is flawed beyond belief

 

[Tom84]

You didn't just say that though did you. You said he's being overhyped and pointed to the fact that he's only scored 2 goals as justification for that. I massively disagree with that.

Crouch is generally massively involved in a lot of Spurs' goals does that save him from criticism? No it doesn't. Look I'm not putting a downer on Suarez but he is being massively over hyped after only 3 months of premier league football and only 2 goals which for a striker that's not a great return!

Arshavin had a great half a season when he first joined Arsenal, that lead people to say he'd be a possible POTY the following season and what happened? He's flattered to deceive ever since.

I believe Purdy's point was simply that if you're going to say Luiz has been 1 of the best signings this season then Suarez should be considered in the same category.

No Purdy's point was that Luiz shouldn't be considered but Suarez should (read back through the thread), my response was that IMO Luiz has been the better of the two

 

[BaZ87]

Crouch is generally massively involved in a lot of Spurs' goals does that save him from criticism? No it doesn't. Look I'm not putting a downer on Suarez but he is being massively over hyped after only 3 months of premier league football and only 2 goals which for a striker that's not a great return!

Arshavin had a great half a season when he first joined Arsenal, that lead people to say he'd be a possible POTY the following season and what happened? He's flattered to deceive ever since.

If Crouch has been as influential in as many goals for Spurs as Suarez has been for us then he shouldn't be getting criticised. If you'd watched us play regularly you'd have seen that in Suarez's 9 appearances he's been key to us scoring 10 times.

He could do more but he's still been excellent.

As for your Arshavin point, did I not say in the post you've quoted that I don't think any signing should be judged after just a few months?

No Purdy's point was that Luiz shouldn't be considered but Suarez should (read back through the thread), my response was that IMO Luiz has been the better of the two

Purdy's original post could be interpreted either way, he clarified it in his next post though. Go read back through the thread

I disagree with you on Luiz too. While he's shown a lot of promise and I don't doubt he'll become a top CB, defensively he's still far too rash. Much like Vermaelen was, he's being praised as a great CB for everything other than his actual defending.

 

[Purdy]

No Purdy's point was that Luiz shouldn't be considered but Suarez should (read back through the thread), my response was that IMO Luiz has been the better of the two

I meant if Luiz has been on that list then Suarez must be too, mind you Luiz is still pretty rash and will **** up in a big game some day i reckon.

No it really wasn't, my point was if Luiz is on so should Suarez, Suarez has been just as influential if not more for us than Luiz for Chelsea and has consistently performed well.
Neither should be on, but if were chucking in january signings, he's in there.
Also bare in mind the amount of times Luiz has nearly cost Chelsea, and really should have (against you and Fulham).

Dalglish for Liverpool=Best
Hodgson for Liverpool=Worst
Hodgson for WBA=Potential

EDIT: Baz beat me to it

 

[AGD]

Steve Clarke for liverpool.

 

[Purdy]

Steve Clarke for liverpool.

Forgot him too.

 

[Tombstone]

Sturridge is a great shout though IMO. As good as he has been im still not sure he would get a start for Chelsea next year. Its not their way.

If they dont want him, we'll happily take him at Liverpool, they can have N'gog in a straight swap

 

[placeholder]

If they dont want him, we'll happily take him at Liverpool, they can have N'gog in a straight swap

I think the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd would have given him a chance but i dont think Chelsea will.

I dont think many at Chelsea were looking at his progress at Bolton when they were writing the cheque for Torres.

 

[Tom84]

As for your Arshavin point, did I not say in the post you've quoted that I don't think any signing should be judged after just a few months?

Which is exactly why I feel Suarez is being over hyped (which is what I've said all along)

Purdy's original post could be interpreted either way, he clarified it in his next post though

Disagree with David Luiz as best and Suarez as a potential.

I'd say that's fairly explanatory tbh, unless of course he had a complete change of heart inbetween the two posts

I disagree with you on Luiz too. While he's shown a lot of promise and I don't doubt he'll become a top CB, defensively he's still far too rash. Much like Vermaelen was, he's being praised as a great CB for everything other than his actual defending.

Well that's your opinion, all I know is how quite he kept Rooney for most of the game against us and how he helped completely nullified any City threat the game after. I cant help but believe that our champions league tie's with Chelsea may have been different had he played in those as well.

No it really wasn't, my point was if Luiz is on so should Suarez

See above, that's not what your first post said whatsoever.

Also bare in mind the amount of times Luiz has nearly cost Chelsea, and really should have (against you and Fulham).

Hang on a second..... so it's unfair to throw lack of goals at Suarez but it's okay to throw if's but's and maybes at Luiz?

 

[BaZ87]

Which is exactly why I feel Suarez is being over hyped (which is what I've said all along)

You're contradicting yourself now. Your justification for Suarez being overy hyped is that he's only played for a few months? Doesn't the same apply for Luiz then?

And that's not what you said all along.

I'd say that's fairly explanatory tbh, unless of course he had a complete change of heart inbetween the two posts

Again, his original post could be read either way. He then made his point perfectly clear in his next post which is what I referred to

Well that's your opinion, all I know is how quite he kept Rooney for most of the game against us and how he helped completely nullified any City threat the game after. I cant help but believe that our champions league tie's with Chelsea may have been different had he played in those as well.

That's fair enough, I just disagree.

Sturridge Stuff

Sturridge Stuff

We were reported to have turned down the chance of having him included in the Torres deal because of his (reportedly bad) attitude.

 

[Tom84]

You're contradicting yourself now. Your justification for Suarez being overy hyped is that he's only played for a few months? Doesn't the same apply for Luiz then?

And that's not what you said all along.

Is it not? Did I say somewhere that he absolutely hasn't done okay so far this season? Did I say he categorically wont improve his goal return next season? No. All I've said is that he's being massively overhyped thus far....

......and reason he's being massively overhyped is because in less than 3 months playing for you ex players are calling him the next Dalglish and fans are listing reasons why he's better than Torres

 

[BaZ87]

No it's not. You initially claimed that he's over hyped and pointed to the fact he's only scored twice as your reason for this, you then said he's over hyped because he only joined a few months ago. Both could be your reasons for thinking he's over hyped but that's not what you originally said and seeing as in the same breath you were raving about Luiz - who was signed on the same day - you've ended up contradicting yourself.

You're entitled to your opinion about him being overy hyped, I disagree. I can't say I've heard or read anything seriously suggesting he's the next Dalglish or 'better' than Torres. In the few months he's been with us, he's been excellent but he's still got a long way to go before he'll be a better signing than Torres was for us and if he becomes a fraction of the player Dalglish was, we'll have a superstar on our hands.

 

[Tom84]

No it's not. You initially claimed that he's over hyped and pointed to the fact he's only scored twice as your reason for this, you then said he's over hyped because he only joined a few months ago. Both could be your reasons for thinking he's over hyped but that's not what you originally said and seeing as in the same breath you were raving about Luiz - who was signed on the same day - you've ended up contradicting yourself.

You're entitled to your opinion about him being overy hyped, I disagree. I can't say I've heard or read anything seriously suggesting he's the next Dalglish or 'better' than Torres. In the few months he's been with us, he's been excellent but he's still got a long way to go before he'll be a better signing than Torres was for us and if he becomes a fraction of the player Dalglish was, we'll have a superstar on our hands.

Baz all I've said is he's being overhyped, obviously I couldn't claim he's being overhyped without giving reasons so yes his goal return & the short amount of time he's been with you are factors in this, only however when ex players and fans (like Purdy) are talking him up as this and that and likening him to Liverpool legends and your recently departed star centre forward.

If by now Suarez had scored 8/9 goals for you in as many games lets be honest however premature they may still be it would be a lot harder to argue with you all.

As for you feeling I'm contradicting myself that would only be true if I was of the opinion that Luiz is also being overhyped as it is I dont feel that is the case (proved by yours and Purdy's criticism of him). I certainly wouldn't claim him or any player signed in January to be a signing of the season though if that's what you're assuming, not in a season when we signed Hernandez in the summer for 6m anyway!!

 

[BaZ87]

Baz all I've said is he's being overhyped, obviously I couldn't claim he's being overhyped without giving reasons so yes his goal return & the short amount of time he's been with you are factors in this, only however when ex players and fans (like Purdy) are talking him up as this and that and likening him to Liverpool legends and your recently departed star centre forward.

If by now Suarez had scored 8/9 goals for you in as many games lets be honest however premature they may still be it would be a lot harder to argue with you all.

As for you feeling I'm contradicting myself that would only be true if I was of the opinion that Luiz is also being overhyped as it is I dont feel that is the case (proved by yours and Purdy's criticism of him). I certainly wouldn't claim him or any player signed in January to be a signing of the season though if that's what you're assuming, not in a season when we signed Hernandez in the summer for 6m anyway!!

You're just changing and adding things to your arguement as you go along. First it was because he's only scored 2 goals (which I don't believe gives a true reflection of his performances), then it was because he's only been here a few months (which contradicts your view that Luiz has been 'immense') and now it's because ex players are comparing him to Dalglish/Torres (which I've not heard).

Surely if me saying Luiz is rash defensively is proof that he's not over hyped then your criticism of Suarez is proof he's not being over hyped too?

You're entitled to your opinion though Tom. I disagree and find your reasons odd to say the least. I stand by what I originally said though; If you actually watched our games you'd see that he's been excellent.

I'll leave it there as we always seem to end up going around in circles Tom.

edit: slightly ot, wasn't the £6m you paid for Hernandez just the initial fee with a fair amount of performance related add-ons?

 

[drunkenmaster]

And the two goals against Chelsea? What excuses are you going to come up with those two? Or the point about Berbatov, Tevez and Drogba's goals and the games they've came in?

Give up your argument is flawed beyond belief

I talked about the 2 goals against Chelsea, which you ignored, as for ignoring Berbatov, Tevez, Drogba, I didn't they weren't mentioned so whats your point?

I've mentioned who Berbatov has scored against before but I've also EVERY SINGLE time Berbs is mentioned, talked about his overall game, when he hasn't scored he's controled the ball, brought posession, calm, his main game isn't to be a poacher, he's a withdrawn striker who creates, thats always been his game. Drogba, the same, target man who gets a huge amount of assists. Tevez has both a lot more goals, more assists, almost always played as a lone striker. If you look at Tevez's goals and assists, in almost every game he's scored or assists, the total of his goals and assists have been the difference between getting 3 points and not, meaning, he's done a huge amount for the team.

He also puts in 100% work rate drops deep to pick up the ball, scores from anywhere and pressures the ball, all things Hernandez doesn't do.

He was compared to others as maybe the best POACHER in the game today, he's not, the closest people to the best poachers in the game are who I compared him to, Raul and RVN. Drogba, Berbatov, Tevez are NOT poachers, nor have they ever been, yet have all outscored the "best poacher in the world, possibly", which rather suggests that no he's not the best poacher in the world. I also didn't compare the "best poacher in the world, possibly" to, VDS, Wilshire, Evra, Kompany, etc, etc, because that would be just as pointless.

But you're doing the usual thing, you're reading into things I didn't say, making up rubbish, adding things I didn't say and calling me wrong on them.

Firstly I didn't say he was rubbish, I said to be considered the BEST in the world in a position after one season is not only insane, its not even true for THIS season, an OAP(in football) has done better than him at a MUCH worse team thats scored half the amount Utd has in the league, thats massively more impressive.

He has potential, for sure, but see how he's doing in two years. Kevin Phillips, Zaki, Rooney with 20+ goals once, loads of players have one fantastic season and never ever come close again. Raul has done it for best part of 15 years, Hernandez COULD be great in the future, he could get 4 goals next season while playing 50 full games, lets see what he does before proclaiming him the best poacher in the game maybe?

 

[FrankJH]

edit: slightly ot, wasn't the £6m you paid for Hernandez just the initial fee with a fair amount of performance related add-ons?

Always thought the fee was £7m in total (thats the figure SAF keeps on using anyway)