Biennial MOT tests

[JonRGV250]

Yup.
There was a time when people would attend to the MOT advisories, but now they just get left until they fail next year.
Also as pastymuncher said, if the car is running fine then people see no reason to service it.
The amount of cars I fail for having engine, stability control, ABS lights etc on is insane.
People just ignore them and continue driving.

 

[theone8181]

So stupid question, but why does the oil go solid when left in for so long, is it just that full of particulates it's more solid than liquid?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Yup.
There was a time when people would attend to the MOT advisories, but now they just get left until they fail next year.
Also as pastymuncher said, if the car is running fine then people see no reason to service it.
The amount of cars I fail for having engine, stability control, ABS lights etc on is insane.
People just ignore them and continue driving.

It doesn’t help that the cost to get such things fixed is extortionate, not helped by the complexity of cars today.

 

[JonRGV250]

So stupid question, but why does the oil go solid when left in for so long, is it just that full of particulates it's more solid than liquid?

What oil was left in there had just “broken down” for want of a better word and lost all the additives that were in it, which after 40k miles isn’t surprising.

 

[pastymuncher]

It doesn’t help that the cost to get such things fixed is extortionate, not helped by the complexity of cars today.

A lot of that cost is the garage's profit margins. Years ago when I had my Mk1 Focus I had a rear spring snap and the garage wanted £180 to fix it which I paid. It got me thinking though and I started searching around and found quality springs for £30 each. Out of curiosity I bought one and a set of spring compressors and changed the opposite side to the one that the garage replaced. A hour and a half of my time and £30 and the spring was replaced. From then on I have done all of my cars corrective and preventitive maintenance myself as it's massively cheaper. My next car was a Mk IV Astra SXi and needed both front drop links replacing. The garage wanted £80 each side just for the parts. I got both on Ebay for £15 a side and had both replaced in a hour. That is a really easy job that most people would be able to do. I should mention that I was a mechanical engineer in the RAF so I know my way around just about anything mechanical. I know many people aren't mechanically minded but a lot of jobs on a car are pretty simple and can be done at home as long as you are comfortable doing them and pay attention to safety. Safety is paramount!! Don't just rely on a jack to hold the car up, use axle stands as well, especially if you are going underneath.

 

[bloodiedathame]

A lot of that cost is the garage's profit margins. Years ago when I had my Mk1 Focus I had a rear spring snap and the garage wanted £180 to fix it which I paid. It got me thinking though and I started searching around and found quality springs for £30 each. Out of curiosity I bought one and a set of spring compressors and changed the opposite side to the one that the garage replaced. A hour and a half of my time and £30 and the spring was replaced. From then on I have done all of my cars corrective and preventitive maintenance myself as it's massively cheaper. My next car was a Mk IV Astra SXi and needed both front drop links replacing. The garage wanted £80 each side just for the parts. I got both on Ebay for £15 a side and had both replaced in a hour. That is a really easy job that most people would be able to do. I should mention that I was a mechanical engineer in the RAF so I know my way around just about anything mechanical. I know many people aren't mechanically minded but a lot of jobs on a car are pretty simple and can be done at home as long as you are comfortable doing them and pay attention to safety. Safety is paramount!! Don't just rely on a jack to hold the car up, use axle stands as well, especially if you are going underneath.

Maintaining profit margins when the business costs increase massively year on year just puts consumers on the back foot.

Good news though, the insurance on my 58 plate POS Golf went down £5 this year...

 

[tom_e]

A lot of that cost is the garage's profit margins. Years ago when I had my Mk1 Focus I had a rear spring snap and the garage wanted £180 to fix it which I paid. It got me thinking though and I started searching around and found quality springs for £30 each. Out of curiosity I bought one and a set of spring compressors and changed the opposite side to the one that the garage replaced. A hour and a half of my time and £30 and the spring was replaced. From then on I have done all of my cars corrective and preventitive maintenance myself as it's massively cheaper. My next car was a Mk IV Astra SXi and needed both front drop links replacing. The garage wanted £80 each side just for the parts. I got both on Ebay for £15 a side and had both replaced in a hour. That is a really easy job that most people would be able to do. I should mention that I was a mechanical engineer in the RAF so I know my way around just about anything mechanical. I know many people aren't mechanically minded but a lot of jobs on a car are pretty simple and can be done at home as long as you are comfortable doing them and pay attention to safety. Safety is paramount!! Don't just rely on a jack to hold the car up, use axle stands as well, especially if you are going underneath.

I'm sure @JonRGV250 has said a few times when these sort of discussions come up, there's not as much profit as people think once you consider all the costs associated with running a garage including training, equipment fees, licencing fees to manufactures etc.

Obviously there's still not going to be an unhealthy profit on top or they wouldn't bother but as with a lot of things there's plenty to pay for that the guy in the street doesn't consider when they don't like the price.

 

[leezer3]

I think you're forgetting that many car parts bought off eBay are quite litteraly made of cheese, and have no warranty backup to speak of.

Even assuming that your spring was 'decent', after you've added an hour and a half of time, plus premises etc. I really don't see the price you were quoted as extortionate.
Not cheap sure, but you're paying for a whole lot more than just the part.

 

[JonRGV250]

I'm sure @JonRGV250 has said a few times when these sort of discussions come up, there's not as much profit as people think once you consider all the costs associated with running a garage including training, equipment fees, licencing fees to manufactures etc.

Obviously there's still not going to be an unhealthy profit on top or they wouldn't bother but as with a lot of things there's plenty to pay for that the guy in the street doesn't consider when they don't like the price.

For example, the last time I was working at a Merc main dealer we charged £170 an hour and the recovery rate (profit) was usually around £85, so there’s a lot to come out of the hourly rate (it was similar when I was at Lexus).
Independents do seem to be charging quite a bit more than they used to these days, which I guess is down to staff wages/parts costs which have jumped up a lot since Covid, that and half of them haven’t a clue what they’re doing when pricing a job.
I saw a quote from Kwik-fit the other day which nearly £400 for pads and discs, which we did for just over £200!

I think you're forgetting that many car parts bought off eBay are quite litteraly made of cheese, and have no warranty backup to speak of.

Absolutely, it’s a big reason why we rarely fit customer supplied parts now.
Some of the crap I’ve seen over the years is absolutely terrible quality, that said, so is a lot of the parts from ECP.

Even assuming that your spring was 'decent', after you've added an hour and a half of time, plus premises etc. I really don't see the price you were quoted as extortionate.
Not cheap sure, but you're paying for a whole lot more than just the part.

To be fair if you’ve been a mechanical engineer then it’s possibly not a bad idea to do it yourself, but for some home mechanics it’s worth paying a bit extra for the warranty and peace of mind.

 

[G J]

Ebay can be great for older cars with more harder to find parts and not be at the mercy of main dealers or second hand parts as I've been able to pick up some good stuff as an example years ago my dads Mondeo failed the MOT on the power steering pipe as it had a little seep in it and ford wanted just over £350 for it. My dad had another car and for around 6 months it sat on the drive and he was close to scrapping it so I looked on ebay and from the offical ford ebay store I purchased a brand new one for around £17 delivered.

Another was a part I had to go to a main dealer for £235 a side for a part and again checked ebay found the part for £20ish each shipped from the EU and the parts arrived with car part labels and holograms. This company was shipping parts direct from the factory that supplies Hyundai.

My local garage that only now does MOT's is certain that some of the parts on ebay are pretty much the same parts and quality they get from suppliers/motor factors as many times the markings, part numbers, packaging etc are the same.

 

[pastymuncher]

I think you're forgetting that many car parts bought off eBay are quite litteraly made of cheese, and have no warranty backup to speak of.

Even assuming that your spring was 'decent', after you've added an hour and a half of time, plus premises etc. I really don't see the price you were quoted as extortionate.
Not cheap sure, but you're paying for a whole lot more than just the part.

I know the difference between a crap part and a good part and only buy good quality parts that have a warranty, not that I have ever needed to claim on a warranty for a component. The springs I fitted were KYB heavy duty springs (with a three year warranty) and actually lasted a lot longer than the original factory fitted springs. I had the Focus from new as it was my first and last brand new car. The original spring lasted 3 years. The KYB springs were still good when I sold the car 9 years later. The original front springs failed a year later which were also replaced by KYB springs plus as I had to dismantle the suspension anyway I replaced the shocks at the same time for Sachs shocks. All were also on the car when I sold it.

What I should have said rather than the garage mark up being a rip off is that the OEM parts mark up is a rip off. Most dealerships won't even confirm that the part number you have is the correct one as they want you to buy from them at hugely inflated prices. My previous car was a 2017 Ford B-Max and didn't come with a undertray. Ford wanted nearly £200 for one plus £7.40 per fastener. I got exactly the same undertray (even had the Ford part sticker on it) for £42 and a bag of ten fasteners for a fiver. Ten minutes of my time to fit and I had a massive saving.

Don't write off Ebay as a source as many of the parts are the same as OEM and of equal or better quality.

 

[Rroff]

Don't write off Ebay as a source as many of the parts are the same as OEM and of equal or better quality.

I don't tend to use eBay but those sources can be so hit and miss - had a centre cap missing from a wheel and dealer wanted £60 for one, got a bag of 4 new for £13 elsewhere and they turned up as OE parts with the proper markings and paperwork despite being sold as compatible not original.

 

[JonRGV250]

My local garage that only now does MOT's is certain that some of the parts on ebay are pretty much the same parts and quality they get from suppliers/motor factors as many times the markings, part numbers, packaging etc are the same.

Plenty of parts are the exact same as you'd get from a dealer and are made in the same factory.
The only difference is the manufacturer logo will be ground off as they can't sell those to anyone but the dealer network, I see it all the time.
That said, there is some awful quality stuff out there.

 

[JonRGV250]

Badly fitted headlamp bulbs are a constant failure for incorrect beam pattern where people (or Halfords, mainly Halfords) just somehow ram them in there causing all kinds of damage to the holder. lamp or retaining clip.
I usually just refit them in situ or pop the lamp out to do it if it means the car will pass, however..
This customer managed to not only destroy the retaining clip, wiring and melt the lamp internals, but then rammed some tin foil in there to hold the bulb in place..

It didn't pass, and a new head lamp was required.

Not the sort of condition one wants their front subframe to be in, considering what's bolted on to it..

The car was owned by a young girl who came in with her grandparents and had just recently passed her test.
I stopped the MOT at this point (no point in charging the MOT fee and continuing) due to how serious it was and the costs involved and explained the problem to them, only to be met with floods (and I mean a tsunami) of tears from the owner
We priced it up with parts from our suppliers, and it's unsurprisingly an uneconomical repair.
I can't comment on the owners private life, but after speaking to the grandparents. that car is her life and she'd found her independence owning it.
I've had a nose around and found the subframe a lot cheaper, and will speak to my boss (long time friend) and see if there's anything we can do to get it through the MOT a lot lot cheaper for her.
I usually couldn't give a rats ass about failing a car, but that one hurt a bit as she was so upset.

This turned out ok in the end.
The grandparents insisted on buying her her first car and obviously bought a lemon, but we did a report on it and they got the majority of their money back, despite it being several months since they purchased it.
The father (who's Porsche we look after) then bought her a 14 plate Aygo, which hopefully should be a bit better.
The young girls mother dropped in some choccy's and a card, which was nice..

Not every garage is out to rip people off.

 

[Nasher]

I once bought a cheap roundabout and found a crack in the subframe. I told the dealer I bought it from to fix it or I'd report them (and their MOT tester who passed it) for fraud.

They agreed to replace the subframe at their expense..

 

[ShivP]

A lot of that cost is the garage's profit margins. Years ago when I had my Mk1 Focus I had a rear spring snap and the garage wanted £180 to fix it which I paid. It got me thinking though and I started searching around and found quality springs for £30 each. Out of curiosity I bought one and a set of spring compressors and changed the opposite side to the one that the garage replaced. A hour and a half of my time and £30 and the spring was replaced. From then on I have done all of my cars corrective and preventitive maintenance myself as it's massively cheaper. My next car was a Mk IV Astra SXi and needed both front drop links replacing. The garage wanted £80 each side just for the parts. I got both on Ebay for £15 a side and had both replaced in a hour. That is a really easy job that most people would be able to do. I should mention that I was a mechanical engineer in the RAF so I know my way around just about anything mechanical. I know many people aren't mechanically minded but a lot of jobs on a car are pretty simple and can be done at home as long as you are comfortable doing them and pay attention to safety. Safety is paramount!! Don't just rely on a jack to hold the car up, use axle stands as well, especially if you are going underneath.

I am quite lucky in the garage I use is a family friend, as is more than happy to fit parts I supply to him

 

[Gaygle]

Also, watch out for pot holes..



And not MOT related, but don't run a diesel engine for 40K miles without a service or topping up the oil..

That filter and what used to be oil is completely solid!

Eek, what car was that on?

Not the sort of condition one wants their front subframe to be in, considering what's bolted on to it..

The car was owned by a young girl who came in with her grandparents and had just recently passed her test.
I stopped the MOT at this point (no point in charging the MOT fee and continuing) due to how serious it was and the costs involved and explained the problem to them, only to be met with floods (and I mean a tsunami) of tears from the owner
We priced it up with parts from our suppliers, and it's unsurprisingly an uneconomical repair.
I can't comment on the owners private life, but after speaking to the grandparents. that car is her life and she'd found her independence owning it.
I've had a nose around and found the subframe a lot cheaper, and will speak to my boss (long time friend) and see if there's anything we can do to get it through the MOT a lot lot cheaper for her.
I usually couldn't give a rats ass about failing a car, but that one hurt a bit as she was so upset.

To be honest, for a lot of people this is horrendous. But for those with a little bit of knowledge of cars, this is just a bit of an inconvenience. A rear subframe can be obtained second hand for most cars for very little (£50-100?). Then a couple of hours labour to fit it and you're away

 

[JonRGV250]

Eek, what car was that on?

2016 Hyundai i40

To be honest, for a lot of people this is horrendous. But for those with a little bit of knowledge of cars, this is just a bit of an inconvenience. A rear subframe can be obtained second hand for most cars for very little (£50-100?). Then a couple of hours labour to fit it and you're away.

It was the front subframe, so a little more labour intensive, but certainly not overly difficult.

 

[JonRGV250]

If you lose the little tab that stops the seat belt buckle sliding down towards the floor, then the best thing to do is hack a hole in the webbing and insert an 8mm bolt.
Just like this customer did..

It didn't pass.

 

[JonRGV250]

A bit of silliness from today.
The best thing to do if you've got a 12 inch part of your sill completely missing through corrosion is to try and hide it behind the plastic sill cover using Tiger seal (or whatnot), but do remember to put the said sealant where it'll actually adhere to the sill and not where the 12 inch hole is..
It came in with the sill cover hanging down.

These people walk amongst us