Big Tech Authoritarianism

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

I was aiming for cheap yucks by making a joke that conservatives were up in arms about a baker that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple and the high court upheld the baker's right to do so, but of course when it doesn't go in their favour, the same people who were concerned for the baker don't want to play by that same ruleset any more because it doesn't fit with their issue du jour.

Like they say, explaining a joke is a bit like dissecting a frog; you understand it better but the frog is still dead.

Wait there’s a frog !

 

[BowdonUK]

Wait there’s a frog !

There is a lot of big carrots being chomped around here. I wish there was a carrot emoji!

 

[LOAM]

What really boggles the mind is you don’t seem to get that the heavy use of algorithmically targeted users and conditioning of people was spearheaded in the West by Trump and was the main reason he won last time. Trump aimed those algorithmically targeted users and conditioning at people like you and it worked. It was the companies like Cambridge Analytica that are behind algorithmically targeted users and conditioning and they worked for Trump not anyone else or the other side. Trump even said publicly that’s how he won. Cambridge Analytica are also the ones behind Vote Leave Brexit and they used the same method which you fall for every time.

Its unbelievable how many times you have fallen for Cambridge Analytica tactics. Leaked: Cambridge Analytica's blueprint for Trump victory | UK news | The Guardian is just one of many small examples. If you get your hands on the full 27+page presentation For Trumps Cambridge Analytica project its amazing how often you fall for it.

All those Hillary and other posts you made. That was Trump’s algorithmically targeted users and conditioning aimed at people like you.

Many of your posts over the years on this forum match up just about every major time Trump and Cambridge Analytica pushed an agenda via algorithmically targeted users and conditioning. Not because you work for them, but because you fall for there algorithmically targeted users and conditioning hook line and sinker. Even now you are doing just what they want you to do as you are letting the algorithmically targeted users and conditioning control you.

Not that I expect you will. You should really look into Cambridge Analytica and the agendas they have pushed via algorithmically targeted users and conditioning as you seem to fall for there propaganda every time.

All of this ^^^^^ plus this that was uncovered.

https://www.channel4.com/news/revea...llions-of-black-americans-from-voting-in-2016

 

[dlockers]

Because you started with a direct quote from that guy who thinks they are trying to destroy America and the world through propaganda and that they are puppets of Russia. It's hit job stuff on CA (btw see ICO investigation) and my point is that this reinforces an existing conspiracy theory around them rigging elections for Trump and Brexit, which is really not helpful or accurate. It's not to say CA themselves are a model company but it shouldn't be blown out of proportion.

On the second section, no, that's not correct. The Obama campaign in 2008 did this on a large scale using Facebook data and it's amusing how these people kept their heads low as the CA scandal blew up (quick, stay quiet and no-one will notice). Back then, they had been pretty proud of what they had achieved. People just don't know what you could/can actually extract from the Facebook platform (i.e. the data available) and this team built a technical platform to do just this.

CA was not a conspiracy theory.

 

[w11tho]

Feels like a lot of "The Sun" readers frequenting this thread. The echo chamber of your local barber/ working mans club closed must be having quite an impact.

It’s quite tricky to communicate sincerity via this medium, but I want to give it a go: a sincere thank you for helping to get us things like Brexit and a Conservative working majority of 80+ seats. You are a gift.

 

[chrcoluk]

When these conspiracy theories result in the riots we have seen the other day?

Some of the conspiracy stuff on Gab is truly mind boggling. Never mind the QAnon groups, they are loony.

Unsure if this stuff should be censored or not......Trump ban is fine though.

The QAnon stuff, again bigged up by Don "honest as the day is long" Trump, is pretty big and these kinds of conspiracy theories are growing. We even have stupid movements in the UK now touting conspiracy theories, anti mask marches (David Icke derp).

well most dont cause riots, if online content is causing riots, then in my view its not just a CT, its a kind of hate propaganda which I see as different, and put that in the same category as terrorism sites.

 

[chroniclard]

 

[mmj_uk]

A taste of their own medicine?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Twitter-Facebook-censorship-banned-Trump.html

I can't wait for Twitter's hilariously hypocritical response about how free speech is important and how they're violating human rights, like they did when Uganda blocked them ahead of their elections.

To clarify I don't support any censorship but it's funny. All freedom loving countries should do this until they stop censoring and playing judge, jury and executioner.

 

[dlockers]

A taste of their own medicine?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Twitter-Facebook-censorship-banned-Trump.html

I can't wait for Twitter's hilariously hypocritical response about how free speech is important and how they're violating human rights, like they did when Uganda blocked them ahead of their elections.

To clarify I don't support any censorship but it's funny. All freedom loving countries should do this until they stop censoring and playing judge, jury and executioner.

I really do not think Twitter will respond. Sounds like a "mam and pap" ISP with about 20 Customers. Their website and email looks like it was written by a potato. And if you had read the article, it actually says Customer's have to opt into the block.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

A taste of their own medicine?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Twitter-Facebook-censorship-banned-Trump.html

I can't wait for Twitter's hilariously hypocritical response about how free speech is important and how they're violating human rights, like they did when Uganda blocked them ahead of their elections.

To clarify I don't support any censorship but it's funny. All freedom loving countries should do this until they stop censoring and playing judge, jury and executioner.

Wait so an ISP censors Twitter and Facebook because they censored Trump? Though after reading that article in the Daily Heil, that isn't what they were doing at all. Tell me @mmj_uk do you actually read the links you post?

Uganda blocked all social media.

So all "freedom loving countries" should censor the internet? So you want governments to get involved in free speech now? Because that doesn't always end in tears.

At some point you'll realise that Trump would have lost his access to a private companies servers a long time ago if he wasn't POTUS. What happened on the 6th and his campaign of lies and deceit over the election has changed everything. They are going to come down harder on people who spread fake news from now on.

Parler was dropped by Apple, Google and Amazon because they failed to moderate their platform. Section 230 means you aren't liable for the speech on your platform IF you moderate it. They left death threat and other such speech on there meaning they were potentially liable as they were operating outside 230. That meant Apple, Google and Amazon were also potentially liable by their association with Parler. They were warned by Amazon to get the platform moderated. They failed to do that. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[inflames]

Well looks like they going after minds next...

https://www.rt.com/usa/512709-minds-warning-parler-censorship/

 

[Dinosaur]

At some point you'll realise that Trump would have lost his access to a private companies servers a long time ago if he wasn't POTUS. What happened on the 6th and his campaign of lies and deceit over the election has changed everything. They are going to come down harder on people who spread fake news from now on.

Parler was dropped by Apple, Google and Amazon because they failed to moderate their platform. Section 230 means you aren't liable for the speech on your platform IF you moderate it. They left death threat and other such speech on there meaning they were potentially liable as they were operating outside 230. That meant Apple, Google and Amazon were also potentially liable by their association with Parler. They were warned by Amazon to get the platform moderated. They failed to do that. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I think these are fair points.

I've seen "regular people" get booted off facebook/twitter for saying pretty low level offensive stuff to all of their 100 followers. I think Trump has actually been given far too much leeway, it's not the actual offensive things which are the problem in my view, it's the lies and fake news, combined with the responsibility and impact he has, being POTUS.

For me - Parler simply looks like a place for people to discuss/plan/organise some pretty serious stuff, (based on what I've been reading from multiple outlets) and no responsible provider such as AWS is going to host that sort of content. In the end AWS is stuck between a rock and a hardplace, if they disconnect a platform full of insane lunatics plotting to bomb something - they get dragged over the coals for censorship. However if they don't disconnect - and something happens later on and someone gets blown up, as a result of a plot which was orchestrated by people using Parler, they'd be criticised even more for hosting them.

 

[chrcoluk]

Reddit has a similar issue that me and a few others have posted about.

Reddit has a karma system which can do two things. (a) restrict how often you can post, and its very aggressive can be up to 15 minutes between each post and (b) hide you post as is options for hiding negative karma posts.

Like some other karma based sites, you get masses of people down voting unpopular posts, instead of only using the down vote for spam etc.

I noticed someone made a subreddit which allows people to post unpopular posts with freedom, he hacked the css to disable the down vote button.

 

[BowdonUK]

An interesting video by the former head of the ACLU.

Former ACLU Head Ira Glasser on Why You Can't Ban Hate Speech

People need to really watch that video of why you can't ban hate speech. Because the one who is deciding what hate speech is won't be you. What you consider hate speech someone else won't. What you say/type you might not think is hate speech but someone else will.

We've already seen how this backfired on Youtube with a group calling for hate speech bans against other 'far right' youtubers, only for they to get banned also through hate speech.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I think these are fair points.

I've seen "regular people" get booted off facebook/twitter for saying pretty low level offensive stuff to all of their 100 followers. I think Trump has actually been given far too much leeway, it's not the actual offensive things which are the problem in my view, it's the lies and fake news, combined with the responsibility and impact he has, being POTUS.

For me - Parler simply looks like a place for people to discuss/plan/organise some pretty serious stuff, (based on what I've been reading from multiple outlets) and no responsible provider such as AWS is going to host that sort of content. In the end AWS is stuck between a rock and a hardplace, if they disconnect a platform full of insane lunatics plotting to bomb something - they get dragged over the coals for censorship. However if they don't disconnect - and something happens later on and someone gets blown up, as a result of a plot which was orchestrated by people using Parler, they'd be criticised even more for hosting them.

They would be open to far more than just criticism. They would be liable to civil lawsuit. They knew Parler wasn't removing such speech, people have then acted on that speech. If it could be successfully argued that because of their inaction they fall outside section 230, they could taken to the cleaners.

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
Former ACLU Head Ira Glasser on Why You Can't Ban Hate Speech
. . .

As you say, the Former Head of the American Civil Liberties Union; you would hardly expect him to say anything else.

Incidentally, I gather that Rupert Murdoch's son has condemned the US media for “propagating lies” which have unleashed “insidious and uncontrollable forces” that will endure for years. Heaven forfend that a prominent member of a right-wing news media family should suggest that any part of the US Media ought to be discouraged from spreading lies

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

An interesting video by the former head of the ACLU.

Former ACLU Head Ira Glasser on Why You Can't Ban Hate Speech

People need to really watch that video of why you can't ban hate speech. Because the one who is deciding what hate speech is won't be you. What you consider hate speech someone else won't. What you say/type you might not think is hate speech but someone else will.

We've already seen how this backfired on Youtube with a group calling for hate speech bans against other 'far right' youtubers, only for they to get banned also through hate speech.

Everyone knows something has to change. However he also points out that companies are also protected by the 1st amendment, they can't be forced to publish speech. And that having Gov involving itself in speech is even worse than private companies doing so.

I have no real problem with the last paragraph. As I said above things are changing. Finally these platforms have realised that all this disinformation, conspiracy theories and fake news aren't harmless and are incredibly bad for business. They have helped deeply divide a nation and indoctrinated one side to the point they carried out an insurrection. No company wants to be in any way associated with that, in fact they want to come out as opposed to such action and money talks. Such speech on the far left and right is going to have to find new homes. Let it go back to where it was before social media, fringe groups that you had to really search for to find, rather than it being recommended to you by social media algorithms. This will be a good thing for society.

 

[The Running Man]

Good old superpredators.

Who doesn't want cities full of superpred gangbangers with no moral conscious.

 

[BowdonUK]

For me - Parler simply looks like a place for people to discuss/plan/organise some pretty serious stuff, (based on what I've been reading from multiple outlets) and no responsible provider such as AWS is going to host that sort of content. In the end AWS is stuck between a rock and a hardplace, if they disconnect a platform full of insane lunatics plotting to bomb something - they get dragged over the coals for censorship. However if they don't disconnect - and something happens later on and someone gets blown up, as a result of a plot which was orchestrated by people using Parler, they'd be criticised even more for hosting them.

After having watched a view videos about Parler as I'm not on there, can you tell me how people are discussing/planning or organising some pretty serious stuff? From the videos I've watched it seems like a copy of Twitter. So how is like and sharing posts organising pretty serious stuff?

I used to visit a couple of big right-wing forum sites back in the day when I was a younger man and I've never seen anyone plotting bombs. The main filth I've seen these days is on Twitter, a most recent example is that woman from LBC, Shelagh Fogarty, urging the police to shoot the Capitol Hill protesters, a tweet she deleted and apologised for. But never received a twitter ban or suspension, or any job repercussions.

Everyone knows something has to change. However he also points out that companies are also protected by the 1st amendment, they can't be forced to publish speech. And that having Gov involving itself in speech is even worse than private companies doing so.

I have no real problem with the last paragraph. As I said above things are changing. Finally these platforms have realised that all this disinformation, conspiracy theories and fake news aren't harmless and are incredibly bad for business. They have helped deeply divided a nation and indoctrinated one side to the point they carried out an insurrection. No company wants to be in any way associated with that, in fact they want to come out as opposed to such action and money talks. Such speech on the far left and right is going to have to find new homes. Let it go back to where it was before social media, fringe groups that you had to really search to find, rather than it being recommended to you by social media algorithms. This will be a good thing for society.

I agree with mostly what you are saying here. But the thing that is different from the old days is to now merely to ask questions is getting people lumped in with extremist groups. The mob is too quick to paint a whole backstory on someone because of a question they asked. A lot of issues these days aren't absolutes, yet people tend to simplify issues in to either be black and white. So one side advocates lockdowns, masks, vaccines, and the other side is saying corona doesn't exist, dont wear a mask, and vaccines are killing us. They are two sides of the same coin. The truth is in the middle and is always debated by intelligent people. But what we have is unaccountable private businesses dictating the narrative of the conversation. They shouldn't be doing that. The main problem I see with social media is the tribal attitude of people. If they were less hostile to people of the opposite opinion and engaged them in conversation then that is the way to neutralise extremism. There will always be those two opinions but the extremist element will have been removed. Sadly, I think it is more a cultural problem these days that people are less tolerate of a different view and its being shown on social media.

Now Republicans and Democrats alike want to rein in Big Tech
https://www.ft.com/content/e7c1a64f-b2d9-423b-a86c-f36d1c4e71b7

 

[dlockers]

After having watched a view videos about Parler as I'm not on there, can you tell me how people are discussing/planning or organising some pretty serious stuff? From the videos I've watched it seems like a copy of Twitter. So how is like and sharing posts organising pretty serious stuff?

It is in the Amazon response to Parler's legal action.