Bikers....

iaind said:
I know there's a few bikers about here and obviously a lot of motorists..

I don't want to start a massive flame war, but why do so many bikers drive like idiots? They seem to think the public roads are their own private racetrack and that they have more of a right to use the roads than us car drivers. I've seen bikers on the way home doing what must be well over 110~120, swerving in and out of traffic.

The amount of bikes I've had sit right on my tail on the dual carriageway when I'm overtaking traffic on the inside, then try to undertake me. I always pull into the inside lane after I've passed traffic and indicate when I do if there's something behind me.

Or they seem to expect me to pull over into the verge/kerb to let them past in traffic - why can they not just wait in a queue like the rest of us?

I know a lot of bikers will slate car drivers for not paying enough attention to bikes but I always see them and pay attention to what they're doing - do they not realise they're very difficult to keen an eye on when they're swerving around well over the speed limit?

I dont want anyone to think I'm saying all bikers are the same, but there seem to be such a high proportion of them that are willing to risk their own life and the life of others. I've never ridden a bike, so could someone try to explain - is it worth it? Why do so many ride like this?
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I am a biker and the only point I disagree with in your post is the one in bold. There is a good percentage of idiots amongst us and recently they gone on to biking, mainly for the buzz of acceleration and speed. Most of these idiots will promply highside, panic brake within the year.

Most car drivers do need to learn to use their mirrors and look both sides of the road. You need to let bikers filter, its not unreasonable, its part of the trade off for being cold and possible power ranger looks.
 
Mil17B said:
I am a biker and the only point I disagree with in your post is the one in bold. There is a good percentage of idiots amongst us and recently they gone on to biking, mainly for the buzz of acceleration and speed. Most of these idiots will promply highside, panic brake within the year.

Most car drivers do need to learn to use their mirrors and look both sides of the road. You need to let bikers filter, its not unreasonable, its part of the trade off for being cold and possible power ranger looks.
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As I've already said numerous times in the thread, I wasnt referring to filtering or even moving over to let them past on roads that are wide enough.

I'm talking about on single lane roads that are too narrow for drivers to safely move over, and some bikers will try to push through the traffic
 
Quite a few of you talk about going over 70 mph.

I havent passed my car test, so am not totally aware of the full highway code. From what I know though, dual carriage way speed limits are 70mph. So, can I ask where you are doing these high speeds and is it legal?

I'm not having a go...I'm just curious.
 
sunama said:
Quite a few of you talk about going over 70 mph.

I havent passed my car test, so am not totally aware of the full highway code. From what I know though, dual carriage way speed limits are 70mph. So, can I ask where you are doing these high speeds and is it legal?

I'm not having a go...I'm just curious.
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70mph is the fastest you can legally go in the UK, on motorways and dual carriageways. Plenty of people speed on those roads though, and NSL roads too.
 
iaind said:
As I've already said numerous times in the thread, I wasnt referring to filtering or even moving over to let them past on roads that are wide enough.

I'm talking about on single lane roads that are too narrow for drivers to safely move over, and some bikers will try to push through the traffic
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As a biker all I want a car driver to do is to be aware of my presence and to continue to drive normally, allowing me to pick the safest moment to overtake. I've had drivers thinking they're being helpful by braking with no warning to let me past or beckoning for me to overtake them on a blind corner. Even with drivers pulling in you can't guarentee their not having a lapse in concentration or setting themselves up for the next bend, the times I've gone past a car that I thought was letting me past but has then gone back over to the outside of the lane as I start to pass .... Consequently I'd rather folks get on with what they want to do and let me decide when it's safe to pass. This may be in a situation where you think I should be tucked in behind you but it's my decision and there are several factors that mean that I'm a better judge of the situation than you, and ultimately it's me that's going to get hurt if I make the wrong decision, you'll be driving away.

Perhaps you need to look less at the reasons behind the behaviour of others and more on why you let it bother you. If you perceive someone as riding dangerously take a deep breath call them an idiot and forget about it, they've already forgotten about you.
 
As has been said there are bad bikers and bad car drivers, or should i say inconsiderate, i'm a biker first and foremost but i also drive a car and i can tell you it's unbelievable the amount of inconsiderate idiots that are allowed to drive a car, i was riding down one of the main roads in the town where i live and within the space of about 300 metres two taxi's and one car perfomed u turns and two other cars pulled out from junctions without even noticing i was there, this sort of thing happens on a regular basis in every country in the world, the reason this sort of thing happens is because car drivers have no real awareness of bikers, the only real way to make car drivers fully aware of bikers is if they where forced to do some sort of motorcycle awareness course as part of their driving test, eg: made to ride a motorcycle on the roads for a week or so.

I also accept that there is a lot of idiot bikers out there and they will come to a sticky end one day, when i'm driving i see bikers doing things that i wouldn't dream of, undertaking, tailgating, speeding, but i guess you also see that with car drivers, can i also say, i've seen car wing mirrors ripped of by other car drivers but never by a biker.
 
As I've said before, my main reasons for posting in the first place were the proportions of bad motorcyclists that I've come across compared to bad car drivers.
Of course there's more bad car drivers, but in proportion I still think its a smaller percentage. I think a lot of that is due to where I am, in Devon, there's a lot of casual summer time power rangers.
 
I can see exactly where you are coming from, i've seen all of the things regarding bikers you have mentioned (apart from wing mirrors being ripped off) and i think bikers like that should never be allowed to ride a bike, and i think most if not all of the bikers on this forum would agree as it gives the rest of us a bad name.
 
NVIDIA_x64 said:
As a Biker myself i do find i feel more confident on it than i do in a car. Like i can get away with things more than i could when i drive my car like put your feet over the number plate whenever you see a speed camera and after 10:00PM at night it does turn into a race course because there is nothing on the roads so you can go as fast as you wish:p 100mph+
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Troll :rolleyes:
 
ive got more respect for bikers than those in cars and i dont have a bike so am not biased.
in general bikers while accelerating off rapidly etc i feel ride more safely than a lot of people in cars.
and if some one is comming up behind me and is going faster i have no problem to move over and let them through on dual carriage ways etc
filtering again i have no problems with if your riding a much smaller machine than my car your more than welcome to save time as long as you dont take the paint off my car
 
About a year ago my then GF decided she wanted to take her CBT and get a 125. I was against this idea and positioned a similar argument to the OP in this thread.

She argued not all bikers were the same. I argued that the idiot riders made up the majority.

So, over the course of a 2-3 month period we shared a mental note of all the bikers we saw and categorised them into idiot or non idiot riders.

Idiot was defined as a rider who was;
Overtaking recklessly
Speeding
Weaving
Tailgating

I can't remember the exact numbers now, but it was about 50/50 between idiot and non idiot riders. So I would agree with the OP's point that the idiot ratio is much higher.

This research was conducted primarily in Berkshire expanding out through the south of England.

My then GF got her 125 and has been riding for a year now without incident (as far as I know).
 
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iaind said:
As I've said before, my main reasons for posting in the first place were the proportions of bad motorcyclists that I've come across compared to bad car drivers.
Of course there's more bad car drivers, but in proportion I still think its a smaller percentage. I think a lot of that is due to where I am, in Devon, there's a lot of casual summer time power rangers.
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I still think a large part of your issue is one of your own attitude and perception, if you're watching every motorcyclist you see and thinking I bet he's going to drive like a pratt then your prejudice is going to be confirmed because those that don't are just exceptions to the rule whilst those that do enforce your views.
 
Lol, I like the idea of doing some formal research :D
The 50/50 figure sounds about right here in the colder months, its seems like its 99/1 in the summer though!
Its hard to tell with car drivers because the idiots can be much less obvious and just pop out to suprise you.
The best possible advice I was given when I was doing my IAM training was to treat everyone like an idiot, then you'll never be suprised :)
 
Manics said:
....I was against this idea and positioned a similar argument to the OP in this thread.....

So, over the course of a 2-3 month period we shared a mental note of all the bikers we saw and categorised them into idiot or non idiot riders.

Idiot was defined as a rider who was;
Overtaking recklessly
Speeding
Weaving
Tailgating
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So from your admittedly biased viewpoint and as someone not experienced in riding motorcycles you judged the ability of motorcyclists and confirmed your biased and uneducated opionons, well done you.

Overtaking recklessly - a rapid overtake after having assessed the traffic and road conditions to confirm the safety of the manouver.
Speeding - Exceeding the speed limits in the correct conditions is illegal but not neccesarily dangerous, ask anyone who's beenon an advanced riding course with a police instructor if they stuck to the speed limits.
Weaving - avoiding potholes, slippery manhole covers, attempting to gain a better view of the road / traffic ahead.
Tailgating - maintaing a position close to a vehicle which is about to be overtaken at the next available safe opportunity.
 
Heh Pie, I take your point. I guess I did have a biased veiwpoint but we only noted riders when we were both in the car together. If I saw a biker doing 100mph in a 40 and I was on my own, it wouldn't of counted.

Of course our "research" was also based on the dissection of literally seconds of the riders performance. After the next roundabout, he may of been riding like a saint but we wouldn't of seen it.

So, no it wasn't flawless. It did though produce some data and it's that I've shared with you all.
 
I think Pie's post was a perfect example of the problem with a lot of bikers - they make excuses for dangerous driving.
Reckless overtaking could be around a blind corner or over a blind crest, which can put the rider and traffic around them in danger.
There shouldnt ever be an excuse for speeding, even if you dont agree with it - we all have to abide by the same rules, just because you physically CAN go faster, doesnt mean you should. I've seen bikers doing 50~60 on city roads, hitting a pedestrian at that speed would be catastrophic.
Weaving to avoid potholes is fine, swerving around traffic to pass them on the nearside, then offside isnt.
Tailgating is NEVER acceptable, you dont know what the vehicle(s) in front are going to do. My prefered method for overtaking in the car is to sit further back than normal in a slightly more offside position than normal. That gives a good clear view of the road ahead and lets you build speed in your own lane before passing. Bikes generally have much better accelleration, so there's no reason this shouldnt work too.
Its fairly irrelevant if someone has ridden a bike or not when one drives into the side of your car
 
iaind said:
I think Pie's post was a perfect example of the problem with a lot of bikers - they make excuses for dangerous driving.
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actually i rode quickly but I would NEVER put someone at risk by doing what you said.
Admittedly I was quicker than most hence my racing I imagine but one thing I do remember from training is defensive riding. i.e. if he can pull out assume he will.
 
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