Bikers....

Flukester said:
Thats just it though, if there is enough room he can pass... if not, he can't barge through so has to wait, the gap is either there or not.

No worries on that expression btw, doesnt 'offend', it's just not good in a thread about bikers :)
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That was one of my original points though, I have had occasions where a biker might try to force through a gap that isnt there. In this case, he probably could have tried to force the car in front to the side but it would mean he would have to get very close to the left lane which was moving quite quickly. I wont say its the norm, or even that common - but I have seen it happen.

Its normally the scooters that I see doing this, sometimes passing blokes on "real" bikes shaking their heads. Do scooter riders count as "bikers" in the biker community?
 
No problems at all. I just wanted to point out that terms such as 'tarmac burger' (which I'd not heard before and actually found quite funny) don't necessarily cause offence.

Just to add to the topic here though, I do find it somewhat curious that some bikers (like pedestrians) don't have the imagination to think what may happen to them should they hit a car/wall etc. I really do feel that people who participate in anything risky should take more responsibility for their actions.
 
iaind said:
That was one of my original points though, I have had occasions where a biker might try to force through a gap that isnt there. In this case, he probably could have tried to force the car in front to the side but it would mean he would have to get very close to the left lane which was moving quite quickly. I wont say its the norm, or even that common - but I have seen it happen.

Its normally the scooters that I see doing this, sometimes passing blokes on "real" bikes shaking their heads. Do scooter riders count as "bikers" in the biker community?
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I dunno, I just don't see how a biker can force a car out of the way in traffic... believe me the biker won't want to be hitting any cars, you shouldn't have to move at all.

Maybe bikers who do this are riding sheds and just dont care... but prolly quite rare like you say. I think your right some of these lads on scooters just don't give a stuff about anyone else on road.
 
The thing is, there are idiot bikers for sure, but there are many many more idiot car drivers. I don't know what the ratio is, and to be honest it doesn't matter when you come across one. Difference is we're so used it its not worth starting a post about all the incidents!

But since you asked ;)

I was riding along yesterday, overtaking a line of cars on the A171. They were doing about 50-55ish, and I did probably overtake them at about 70, very refrained really. This was going swimmingly until someone in a Vectra took offense and decided to swerve out about 3 feet over the center line just as I approached. I'd had too good a day to let it spoil the fun so I just accelerated past and out of the way.

I also came around a bend to find a car sat in the middle of the road. No indicators or anything. They looked lost and I slowed right down rather than overtake. Sure enough, as I got close the bloke just swung it round in a big U-turn. When he was facing me the look of shock in his face was a picture - I think he realised what could have happened. I just shook my head and rode on.

Those are just two obvious examples - there were countless other cars I went past where the drivers were using mobiles, smoking, shouting at the kids in the back, applying makeup, eating lunch whilst driving, performing truck like, half mile long overtakes etc etc etc

So whilst the odd idiot biker (by your definition) may annoy you, nearly clip a wing mirror or whatever, consider what its like to be nearly killed by other road users inattention on every ride!

And I do wish car drivers would stop trying to race. I don't know if its green bikes or what, but recently I've found that more and more cars love to try and accelerate as I overtake. Seriously, its pathetic. I had a guy in an M3 CSL try it yesterday. Annoying, as its quite fast by car standards so I had to actually drop a gear to leave him for dead, and I was trying to have a sensible day! Then, the other week on the Yorkshire TT (Helmsley to Stokesly road) I caught up to an MG TF that was driving enthusiastically, which is fine, but as soon as he saw me he started taking ridiculous risks to try and stay in front. I could see the silhoutte of his wife/girlfriend going mad at him. It made me think later, if he'd crashed could I have been held partly responsible as some people may have seen it as racing, whereas I just wanted to go at my own pace, which was faster than his.

And no, car drivers don't have any appreciation of the capabilities of a bike. You might think you do. You might have been in a fast car and think that compares. It doesn't. Its a whole different world or performance, both in acceleration and braking. I feel far far safer and more stable on a bike at 100mph on a bumpy A road than I do in my car at the 60mph speed limit, and I rarely overtake in my car as it just feels inherently risky unless its on a motorway. On a bike I'm round a car in a couple of seconds and back in my lane. Its all about perception - I'm sure some drivers were thinking I was some sort of maniac biker on my rider yesterday, but apart the dozy car driver incidents, it was a perfectly safe ride.
 
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Sagalout said:
And I do wish car drivers would stop trying to race. I don't know if its green bikes or what, but recently I've found that more and more cars love to try and accelerate as I overtake. Seriously, its pathetic..
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Had this quite a lot recently as well... last week or so a car a few feet from back of me for no reason. I stayed accelerating at a normal rate in 6th, he was pretty much flat out I guess as 6th gear roll on is pretty rapid by car standards, then thought 'right, I've had enough of this', and dropped 4 gears and pinned it. He wasn't there for very long :)

Maybe makes me as bad as them, but is a ton of fun even if there is nothing to prove..

So many cars out there today who don't like being overtaken by anything, though I admit I was like this in my teens. Mostly can't be arsed with it these days though, i'm far to old and boring, but if I'm being tailgated or on a open road overtake I'm fair game for a drag race :D
 
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iaind said:
Do scooter riders count as "bikers" in the biker community?
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NO THEY DONT!

Now go rinse your mouth out! :p

Its damn annoying, 99% of scooter riders are neds or spanish/italian/greeks with a death wish specially in london :p
Yet when they act like prats and get knocked off/crash it all counts towards two wheeled transport statistics as a whole, I wish scooters were a class of their own lol
 
robbiemc said:
I really do feel that people who participate in anything risky should take more responsibility for their actions.
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I really do feel that anyone deciding to take control of a tonne and a half of moving metal should take responsibility for their actions too. Fully concentrating on actually driving said vehicle would be a great start.
 
Sagalout said:
I really do feel that anyone deciding to take control of a tonne and a half of moving metal should take responsibility for their actions too. Fully concentrating on actually driving said vehicle would be a great start.
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lol, I wouldn't dream of taking eyes off road on a bike, but car drivers spend large percentage of time messing with various switches / hifi's / sat navs / map books / pastys / coffee / having a nice convo with wife and kids etc etc...

only button I have to really mess with is the lap timer, and it's use is limited unless I find a really big roundabout of sumthin :D
 
I love driving in general, enjoy going fast and driving hard given the chance. Up the west coast of scotland is a favourite with cars and bikes. I love bikes but dont/wont have one as I suspect I'd kill myself fairly quickly (if the OH didn't first!).

when I'm out for a drive I want to enjoy myself and get to my destination, just like everyone else. There are idiots on bikes and in cars alike. Yesterday I did 300+ miles up the M6 and the ratio of car to bike idiots was well and truely biased towards cars.

I truely dont understand the mentality of trying to speed up just because someone is trying to overtake. If they are going faster then let them go. And it does appear to be mostly car drivers but that could be as I dont overtake as many bikes ;)
 
People not paying attention, where driving is not really a high priority on their "to-do" list, is a pet peeve of mine too. When I'm driving, I do try to give the road as much attention as possible. The only thing I might be messing with, other than normal driving controls is the stereo and thats by steering wheel control anyway. I'd never use a mobile or adjust sat nav when I'm on the move and conversation is limited too..... The things I see other drivers do behind the wheel is shocking sometimes, and I can understand how it can be so much more frustrating when you're on a bike.

Sagalout - that was a really interesting insight, exactly the type of thing I was hoping for from this thread :)
 
Sagalout said:
....And I do wish car drivers would stop trying to race. I don't know if its green bikes or what, but recently I've found that more and more cars love to try and accelerate as I overtake....
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I've had a few incidents recently where a car driver I've come up to notices me behind them and then speeds up as if they want to show me what their car can do, this is generaly on single lane carriageways or single track roads usually with limited visibility. On a couple of occasions I've felt the best thing to do was to fall back because my presence was encouraging them to drive beyond their capacity and speeds safe for the roads. Sadly by doing so you know they will be down the pub with their mates saying how they blew off a bike, encouraging more of the same stupid behaviour.

My personal pet hate is car drivers that indicate to come off a roundabout at least one exit too early so according to their signals they are exiting before your lane but in fact they come sailing past you to take the next exit (or the one after). I don't know how many of those I get on a daily basis.
 
robbiemc said:
No problems at all. I just wanted to point out that terms such as 'tarmac burger' (which I'd not heard before and actually found quite funny) don't necessarily cause offence.

Just to add to the topic here though, I do find it somewhat curious that some bikers (like pedestrians) don't have the imagination to think what may happen to them should they hit a car/wall etc. I really do feel that people who participate in anything risky should take more responsibility for their actions.
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are you riding again robbiemc ? or have you never wanted to again
 
iaind said:
I dont appreciate being treated like an inexperienced motorist because I've never ridden a bike....
Yet, the mere suggestion that there are bad bikers out there seems to get some people up in arms....
you have the impression that I'm biased against bikers. Perhaps thats the problem - the most dangerous drivers on the road are the ones who think they're better than others.....FWIW
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The fact that you have never ridden a bike gives your arguments a lot less credence - I'm sorry if you can't accept that. I've ridden bikes for 26 years and driven cars for 22 years. For the ability to judge what is a safe manouver and what isn't I would trust a bike rider over a car driver any day and a car driver who also rides a bike is IMHO the best road user you can get.

If you're going to openly criticise the abilities of a large proprtion of motorcyclists you're not going to be popular amongst those you criticise so I don't see how this can be a suprise.

I enjoy motorcycling as a hobby and car driving as part of my work / life duties. I don't feel the need to judge my abilities against the next man, I tried to explain to you in my first and second posts that a lot of your problems with motorcyclists is down to your own attitude and not their behavior, once you can accept this I think you'll be a better road user.

/Edit - Forgot to say that the IAM does seprate courses for motorcyclists so I'm not suprised yours was undersubscribed by bikers (or should that be oversubscribed if one was actually attending).
 
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It's like everything in life, there are people who are good at things and people who are bad.
I would like to think that the good motorcycle riders outweigh the bad ones.
I was out in my car this morning and then the bike this afternoon.
No problems in the car this morning, but this afternoon on the bike I had some daft bint in a car decide that she could pull out half way across the junction and then stop. She had deffo seen me coming as her fella was in the car and giving her merry hell!!
What do you think she did?
Carried on faffing with her hair in the mirror in the middle of the road!!
I had been coming down the road at under the speed limit, she had seen me because the car driver to her left, who was turning left, stopped and as I passed just shook his head in dismay.
 
PieEater said:
The fact that you have never ridden a bike gives your arguments a lot less credence - I'm sorry if you can't accept that. I've ridden bikes for 26 years and driven cars for 22 years. For the ability to judge what is a safe manouver and what isn't I would trust a bike rider over a car driver any day and a car driver who also rides a bike is IMHO the best road user you can get.

If you're going to openly criticise the abilities of a large proprtion of motorcyclists you're not going to be popular amongst those you criticise so I don't see how this can be a suprise.

I enjoy motorcycling as a hobby and car driving as part of my work / life duties. I don't feel the need to judge my abilities against the next man, I tried to explain to you in my first and second posts that a lot of your problems with motorcyclists is down to your own attitude and not their behavior, once you can accept this I think you'll be a better road user.
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I know the fact I've never ridden a bike means I cant comment on certain things. But ultimately, if something is clearly unsafe, its irrelevant whether I've ridden a bike, or even driven a car before. Yes, there are a lot of situations that may initially appear unsafe to me but arent, I've accepted that and understand it. Certain things, such as tailgating, can be very clear cut and no amount of experience can make them safe.

At no point have I generalised motorcyclists as a whole, I've already apologised if I've given this impression. I have criticised the bad motorcyclists out there - but I think I'm perfectly entitled to do that.

I've already said I dont have a problem with motorcyclists in general, neither do I have any kind of attitude problem. I've never altered my driving style to make life harder for bikers (blocking them etc), I don't suffer from road rage either. However, you can't possibly say that the bad experiences I have had (mentioned previously) have been anything to do with my attitude.
 
Sagalout said:
The thing is, there are idiot bikers for sure, but there are many many more idiot car drivers. I don't know what the ratio is, and to be honest it doesn't matter when you come across one. Difference is we're so used it its not worth starting a post about all the incidents!

But since you asked ;)

I was riding along yesterday, overtaking a line of cars on the A171. They were doing about 50-55ish, and I did probably overtake them at about 70, very refrained really. This was going swimmingly until someone in a Vectra took offense and decided to swerve out about 3 feet over the center line just as I approached. I'd had too good a day to let it spoil the fun so I just accelerated past and out of the way.

I also came around a bend to find a car sat in the middle of the road. No indicators or anything. They looked lost and I slowed right down rather than overtake. Sure enough, as I got close the bloke just swung it round in a big U-turn. When he was facing me the look of shock in his face was a picture - I think he realised what could have happened. I just shook my head and rode on.

Those are just two obvious examples - there were countless other cars I went past where the drivers were using mobiles, smoking, shouting at the kids in the back, applying makeup, eating lunch whilst driving, performing truck like, half mile long overtakes etc etc etc

So whilst the odd idiot biker (by your definition) may annoy you, nearly clip a wing mirror or whatever, consider what its like to be nearly killed by other road users inattention on every ride!

And I do wish car drivers would stop trying to race. I don't know if its green bikes or what, but recently I've found that more and more cars love to try and accelerate as I overtake. Seriously, its pathetic. I had a guy in an M3 CSL try it yesterday. Annoying, as its quite fast by car standards so I had to actually drop a gear to leave him for dead, and I was trying to have a sensible day! Then, the other week on the Yorkshire TT (Helmsley to Stokesly road) I caught up to an MG TF that was driving enthusiastically, which is fine, but as soon as he saw me he started taking ridiculous risks to try and stay in front. I could see the silhoutte of his wife/girlfriend going mad at him. It made me think later, if he'd crashed could I have been held partly responsible as some people may have seen it as racing, whereas I just wanted to go at my own pace, which was faster than his.

And no, car drivers don't have any appreciation of the capabilities of a bike. You might think you do. You might have been in a fast car and think that compares. It doesn't. Its a whole different world or performance, both in acceleration and braking. I feel far far safer and more stable on a bike at 100mph on a bumpy A road than I do in my car at the 60mph speed limit, and I rarely overtake in my car as it just feels inherently risky unless its on a motorway. On a bike I'm round a car in a couple of seconds and back in my lane. Its all about perception - I'm sure some drivers were thinking I was some sort of maniac biker on my rider yesterday, but apart the dozy car driver incidents, it was a perfectly safe ride.
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Very interesting post Sagey! In my few months on the SV I only really came across people trying to close the door when I was filtering. I'd only ever be doing it at low speeds etc.

Had all the usual roundabout idiots, wrong-side-of-the-road-on-a-bend idiots, A STRAIGHT ROAD BUT SOMEHOW GET IN MY WAY idiots, and so forth. I hope those people have a nasty fall.

I have had the cars trying to play race which is most ridiculous, what do they think... bah.

Anyway.
 
PieEater said:
/Edit - Forgot to say that the IAM does seprate courses for motorcyclists so I'm not suprised yours was undersubscribed by bikers (or should that be oversubscribed if one was actually attending).
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Fair enough, it was a while ago I did it so cant remeber all the details. Wasn't trying to prove/disprove anything - just mentioned it as you had said something about advanced tuition. There's probably fewer than 1/25 bikers to cars on the road anyway
 
I was a biker and as such i feel blessed with inifintely more road awareness as a result but as i drive in london I am building a huge resentment for moped riders and couriers, I always move out the way and always hit the wing mirror fold button to allow bikers to filter more effectively, however not once has a courier/moped rider ever acknowledged my efforts, a proper biker in a power ranger suit always kicks his feet or waves but the rest as far as im concerned ride like soon to be statistics and will get no respect from me as a result.
I also detest bikers who filter and sit at an angle in front of me at traffic lights like its their god given right to assume pole position and hold me up, maybe im just an agressive driver but it drives me nuts to see a cg50 sat infront of me reading his clipboard whislt the lights go green then pootle off at 10mph.
Then you get the numptys who hog your rear quarter totally in my blind spot who then beep and shake their heads when I brake test them, they then dont appreciate the torrent of abuse i feed them trying to educate them on the finer points of how to ride, all the time assuming I'm just a numpty in a car who doesnt know better.

proper bikers who ride and care for their bikes and wear power ranger suits nearly always command respect, they acknowledge acts of kindness and ride their bikes with a great sense of awareness. These guys/gals will always continue to get my support, the moped/courier riders of this world who wear suits and jeans will recieve the contempt they deserve.

all in my opinion
 
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