Billion 7800N -early thoughts

dewi · 3 Feb 2012 at 21:52

I find the wireless range better on the Billion than on the Thomson.

The Billion 7800N is the most solid router I've owned (I had a Netgear DGND3700 for a while, which was a disaster).

If you change your router, you could ask your ISP to restart the training period.

tals · 4 Feb 2012 at 00:36

The Billion 7800N is the most solid router I've owned (I had a Netgear DGND3700 for a while, which was a disaster).

My understanding is these units have a dodgy modems. The WNDR3700 with separate modem on the other hand and open source firmware is a different matter. My problem with the Billion is it's QOS on ADSL doesn't work - whether that is because it can't handle the ADSL line speed changes or whether it's just poor I don't know. Either way I bought the 7800 on the back of it's qos claims and it was seriously lacking. Connection wise I couldn't faiult it though - no good when my line is being massacred by the whole family streaming

dmsims · 4 Feb 2012 at 02:36

InQ said:
2) it runs as default on Routerstats Lite but you can get Routerstats to work by picking out the noise margin, sync speed etc on Router Search Text tab (i have).

You don't even have to do that

Since version 6.6e just tick alternative data format

mikeo · 4 Feb 2012 at 10:30

tals said:
My understanding is these units have a dodgy modems.

That sounds a little worrying! I had thought these had a fairly modern broadcom chipset in the modem? And they usually say that Broadcom is the way to go if you have a long and or noisy line!

I had thought about a Newtgear (one of the more expensive ones) but they seem not to get the best of write ups these days! Especially looking at the user feedback on some of the big OL retailers.

PS. Did think about this Netgear Range Max Dual Band Wireless-N at one point.

tals · 4 Feb 2012 at 11:01

As I said I went for a Netgear 3700 (the router not with ADSL) + a modem (incidentally a 834g set as a modem). I've loaded Gargoyle open source firmware on it whose QOS is quite frankly spectacular for ADSL. That setup cost me £80, I also have a spare 834g which means I have a modem + backup + a router and 2 backups

Just plugged a USB drive into the router and now I have a file server as well

dewi · 4 Feb 2012 at 13:27

tals said:
My understanding is these units have a dodgy modems. The WNDR3700 with separate modem on the other hand and open source firmware is a different matter. My problem with the Billion is it's QOS on ADSL doesn't work - whether that is because it can't handle the ADSL line speed changes or whether it's just poor I don't know. Either way I bought the 7800 on the back of it's qos claims and it was seriously lacking. Connection wise I couldn't faiult it though - no good when my line is being massacred by the whole family streaming

The issue was Netgear's buggy firmware, which would cause the modem to drop connection every few days. Even worse, the firmware wouldn't reconnect automatically, so I'd have to reboot the router. They rushed the product to market without thoroughly testing the firmware. I notice that Netgear has now announced a new ADSL router (the DGND4000) before they've even fixed all the bugs in the DGND3700 firmware.

The hardware specification was very good, which was why I bought it in the first place. The DGND3700 has a slightly newer, dual core Broadcom chipset than the Billion. It's also concurrent dual band 802.11n, whereas the Billion is single band 802.11n.

I've read other reports that the Billion's QoS doesn't work very well. I haven't tried it myself. I've also read that some of the open source firmware releases do QoS very well. So I can see that something like a Netgear WND3700 with the Gargoyle firmware might be a good way to go if you're interested in QoS.

mikeo · 4 Feb 2012 at 15:57

QOS a none issue for me, as not interested in that aspect. The same goes for dual band wireless N. Though I can appreciate why these features can be of interest to others.

Think I've read enough reviews etc. now. It's just time to make a decision and press that "buy it now" button and I think I shall give the Billion 7800N a whirl.

PS. At least with it having been out a while now, one hopes most (if not all) of the bugs in the firmware should have been ironed out (here's hoping).

tals · 4 Feb 2012 at 16:30

Yep QOS is only of interest if you have multiple users on the network with different requirements. eg if you have someone streaming and someone playing a game the two aspects are non compatible, if your line speed can take it then it's not an issue. For me that is the most important aspect of the network setup, i'd now take a drop in line speed by half to retain a semblance of QOS

Re Netgear firmware for 3700 - haven't got a clue, unpacked and flashed it with Gargoyle - never saw the Netgear stuff except at the flash firmware screen

I get zero issues on wifi and can see all wifi devices connected and strength of signal they each are getting

spudbynight · 4 Feb 2012 at 23:14

Just upgraded to one of these. I am on Be and I had been getting a lot of DCs.

Now I have a rock solid connection and I get this :

kludgedean · 5 Feb 2012 at 01:43

Hi all, hoping I can get some pointers! -- Recently got a 7700n from Amazon, and it is outright refusing (according to diagnostics) authenticate with my ISP (sky), with extracted username and password, connecting over PPPoA & 0,38 an old netgear dg834pn connects without issue!

bundled sagem f@st 2304 connects using MER, but netgear connects over PPPoA, so it should be VERY do-able!

Any help would really be appreciated, as i'm stumped ;'/

iMacMart · 5 Feb 2012 at 08:15

kludgedean said:
Hi all, hoping I can get some pointers! -- Recently got a 7700n from Amazon, and it is outright refusing (according to diagnostics) authenticate with my ISP (sky), with extracted username and password, connecting over PPPoA & 0,38 an old netgear dg834pn connects without issue!

bundled sagem f@st 2304 connects using MER, but netgear connects over PPPoA, so it should be VERY do-able!

Any help would really be appreciated, as i'm stumped ;'/

I thought Sky routers are locked and you can ONLY user their hardware?

Maybe I'm mistaken

~Mike~ · 5 Feb 2012 at 09:42

spudbynight said:
Just upgraded to one of these. I am on Be and I had been getting a lot of DCs.

Now I have a rock solid connection and I get this :

What router where you using before?

I've recently migrated to a new ISP using Be Wholesale and my Netgear DG834PN drops every 2/3 days.

dmsims · 5 Feb 2012 at 20:10

PPoa is being phased out

Try this

Profile Port: ADSL
Protocol: MPoA (RFC1483, Multiprotocol Encapsulation over AAL5)
Description: [Anything You Want]
VPI: 0
VCI: 40
Encap. Method: VC/MUX
NAT: Enabled
MAC Spoofing: WAN MAC address from Sky router
IP: As Sky router
Netmask: As Sky router
Gateway: As Sky router
Obtain DNS: As Sky router

If you want to try Dynamic method, just leave the IP Address set to 0.0.0.0.

kludgedean said:
Hi all, hoping I can get some pointers! -- Recently got a 7700n from Amazon, and it is outright refusing (according to diagnostics) authenticate with my ISP (sky), with extracted username and password, connecting over PPPoA & 0,38 an old netgear dg834pn connects without issue!

bundled sagem f@st 2304 connects using MER, but netgear connects over PPPoA, so it should be VERY do-able!

Any help would really be appreciated, as i'm stumped ;'/

tezabeza · 6 Feb 2012 at 13:22

I will be getting one tuesday as a replacement for a Draytek Vigor 2750n that would not sync with my BT Infinity connection. Tried 2 of the Draytek units but no luck so have got a 7800n and 3 off 8dbi antennas arriving tomorrow this is to replace the BT Business hub 2701HGV-C that BT supply. Not a bad router but only has 802.11G wireless!!

mikeo · 6 Feb 2012 at 13:36

tezabeza said:
I will be getting one tuesday as a replacement for a Draytek Vigor 2750n that would not sync with my BT Infinity connection. Tried 2 of the Draytek units but no luck so have got a 7800n and 3 off 8dbi antennas arriving tomorrow this is to replace the BT Business hub 2701HGV-C that BT supply. Not a bad router but only has 802.11G wireless!!

I've hopefully got mine coming tomorrow sometime as well.

I'll be interested to hear if the replacement antennas make much/any difference. Could be a path I might go down if they do.

While Ethernet, or Powerline are the way to go for fixed devices. Wireless is still handy for the old laptop etc.

PS. Which antenna have you gone for?

tezabeza · 6 Feb 2012 at 18:15

mikeo said:
I've hopefully got mine coming tomorrow sometime as well.

I'll be interested to hear if the replacement antennas make much/any difference. Could be a path I might go down if they do.

While Ethernet, or Powerline are the way to go for fixed devices. Wireless is still handy for the old laptop etc.

PS. Which antenna have you gone for?

I have opted for the TP-Link 8dbi antennas, and these coupled with home made bow tie antennas on the workshop PC will give me a solid signal.

I use the home made bowtie antenna now so I will need to make a second antenna for the workshop PC as I have a TP-Link 300mb PCI wireless card to replace the original 802.11G card thats in there now. But with the BT Business hub which has built in antenna and the bow tie antenna on the workshop PC I have a solid 5 bars. And router is 25m away in house so not bad at all.

mikeo · 6 Feb 2012 at 18:43

tezabeza said:
I have opted for the TP-Link 8dbi antennas, and these coupled with home made bow tie antennas on the workshop PC will give me a solid signal.

I use the home made bowtie antenna now so I will need to make a second antenna for the workshop PC as I have a TP-Link 300mb PCI wireless card to replace the original 802.11G card thats in there now. But with the BT Business hub which has built in antenna and the bow tie antenna on the workshop PC I have a solid 5 bars. And router is 25m away in house so not bad at all.

Interesting. Think I'll see what the new router is like with the stock antenna first.

But is this the one you are talking about?

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-ANT2408CL

kidloco · 6 Feb 2012 at 21:09

iMacMart said:
I thought Sky routers are locked and you can ONLY user their hardware?

Maybe I'm mistaken

Well kind of. Their T&Cs state you must use there equipment. They won't tell you username and password either. Loads of sites tell you how you can get your details from the sky router.

I've recently switched to sky, was on O2 and having no end of problems with my connection. If I have more then 2 or 3 devices connected the thing crawls along. God forbid if I try using torrents as well. Tried various fixes but I've come to the conclusion that the router is just garbage. The free O2 one had none of these issues. Looking at getting the 7800n as it seems to be rock solid.

pyropetepete · 6 Feb 2012 at 21:33

Got mine today, best £30 i've ever spent!

I also got 3 new TP Link 8 DBI's for £4 the 3 delivered

as the ones that come with are only 2dbi (6dbi total) so i will now have 24dbi (gain of 16 dbi) which will help! http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/?categoryid=217&model=TL-ANT2408CL

My nas and drives arrived today as well.

I got 2 new ADSL nation XF-1e professional quality microfilter and also a belking sheilded cable. Along with a .5m CAT6 for the NAS.

Got a small sheet of MDF for it all to go on and then be slid under my bed

tezabeza · 7 Feb 2012 at 13:28

pyropetepete said:
Got mine today, best £30 i've ever spent!

I also got 3 new TP Link 8 DBI's for £4 the 3 delivered as the ones that come with are only 2dbi (6dbi total) so i will now have 24dbi (gain of 16 dbi) which will help! http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/?categoryid=217&model=TL-ANT2408CL

My nas and drives arrived today as well.

I got 2 new ADSL nation XF-1e professional quality microfilter and also a belking sheilded cable. Along with a .5m CAT6 for the NAS.

Got a small sheet of MDF for it all to go on and then be slid under my bed

Nice one, but you wont get 24dbi sorry antenna gain doesn't work like that.

And the 3 antennas are used so you have full duplex on the transmit and receive channels. Hence how you get to the 300mbps transfer rate. its 2 channels of 150mbps working together.

But the main thing is that the 8dbi antennas are far better than the 2dbi antennas because in REAL world terms the 2dbi antennas do not have any gain as dBi stands for decibel gain of an ISOTROPIC RADIATOR this is a mathematically perfect antenna and these unfortunately do not exist in the real world. a 2dbi antenna actually has loss not gain because its real figure is -0.85dBd. This is the figure of the real antenna, so the 8dbi antennas really have 5.86dBd that's real gain. This is because dBd is gain above a reference dipole antenna of 0dB gain.

But any how that aside it will work much better with the 8dbi antennas. :cool: