Blueyonder/Telewest speed upgrades

Vertigo · 12 Aug 2005 at 15:57

ThE-NiNjA said:
Bulldog, and every single person i know on it gets over 60k's upload.

Thats not the only reason im going with them, in competition with NTL and TW the isps liek BD ukonline and freedom to surf will more than likely roll out adsl2 at 24 megs and that will possibly have a 3 meg upload. so im just giving myself a bit of future proofing

Ok fair enough, if upstream bandwidth is important to you then the extra 15KB/s speed could make a lot of difference.

Your irrational slagging off of the BY service does you no favours I'm afraid. Offering 75% of the upstream bandwidth of the Bulldog product does not constitute "pos upload speeds", nor does it constitute "VERY poor" bandwidth.

Claiming BY are doing "too little, too late" is simply rubbish. Standard BT provisioned ADSL services are only just ramping up to 2mb, so BY have responded by making this their base service and offering up to five times the bandwidth for those that want it. As for 8mb services, these are still only available in a very limited number of exchanges.

With regard to ADSL2, this isn't available yet so any speculation on speeds, prices or availability is completely pointless. Who's to say that when ADSL2 starts to offer higher speeds that BY won't match or exceed them?

EDIT: I see that Freedom2Surf offer upstream speeds of 832kbps on their 8mb service. Does that mean Bulldog's service has "pos upload speeds" by comparison?

ThE-NiNjA · 12 Aug 2005 at 16:28

Vertigo1 said:
Ok fair enough, if upstream bandwidth is important to you then the extra 15KB/s speed could make a lot of difference.

Your irrational slagging off of the BY service does you no favours I'm afraid. Offering 75% of the upstream bandwidth of the Bulldog product does not constitute "pos upload speeds", nor does it constitute "VERY poor" bandwidth.

Claiming BY are doing "too little, too late" is simply rubbish. Standard BT provisioned ADSL services are only just ramping up to 2mb, so BY have responded by making this their base service and offering up to five times the bandwidth for those that want it. As for 8mb services, these are still only available in a very limited number of exchanges.

With regard to ADSL2, this isn't available yet so any speculation on speeds, prices or availability is completely pointless. Who's to say that when ADSL2 starts to offer higher speeds that BY won't match or exceed them?

EDIT: I see that Freedom2Surf offer upstream speeds of 832kbps on their 8mb service. Does that mean Bulldog's service has "pos upload speeds" by comparison?

Bulldos upload sped is 10% of its download. freedom to surf is even better, but for some reason BY havent decided to stick wioth the conventional 10% of the downlaod speed for the upload speed..

The need for more uplaod speed is becoming grater and greater no im not talking about piracy either.

Aslo hasnt blueyonder with eveyr other upgrade also upgraded the uplaod speed ? i wonder why that have chosen not to do this wit hthe 10 meg service tho ? genuine question that.

Vertigo · 12 Aug 2005 at 16:56

ThE-NiNjA said:
Bulldos upload sped is 10% of its download.

Not it's not. 10% of 8mb is roughly 800kbps, the Bulldog product is advertised as having 400kbps upstream. Ok it may be faster than that in reality but it's not double.

freedom to surf is even better, but for some reason BY havent decided to stick wioth the conventional 10% of the downlaod speed for the upload speed..

That's their choice, just as it's the choice of the consumer whether they wish to trade lower upstream bandwidth for a bit more downstream.

The need for more uplaod speed is becoming grater and greater no im not talking about piracy either.

What are you talking about then? The vast majority of those moaning on about more upstream bandwidth are those using P2P software. Whilst I don't dispute there are valid reasons for having increased upstream speeds, most of these activities are relatively niche and infrequent for most users and BY's decision to peg their upstream at 384kbps obviously reflects this.

Aslo hasnt blueyonder with eveyr other upgrade also upgraded the uplaod speed ? i wonder why that have chosen not to do this wit hthe 10 meg service tho ? genuine question that.

Not every time no. In the first round of upgrades early last year there were no increases to upstream bandwidth at all. In the second round of upgrades only the 2mb product (which went to 4mb) had its upstream bandwidth increased, by 50%.

ThE-NiNjA · 12 Aug 2005 at 17:19

Vertigo1 said:
there are valid reasons for having increased upstream speeds

Think that says it all really. the need wasnt as big back in the day bu it is now and i really wish ALL isps would start to cator for it more.

Vertigo · 12 Aug 2005 at 18:20

Please don't quote me out of context.

My point is that ISPs cater for the majority of their customers.

It's only a relatively minor percentage of users who are asking for increased upstream bandwidth, the majority don't even know how this would benefit them, let alone care. This has been discussed at length on the BY newsgroups several times and TW themselves have confirmed that they've conducted market research to ascertain that this is the case.

In an ideal world all providers would offer a totally flexible system whereby customers could configure the exact bandwidth they require in each direction and be charged accordingly. Unfortunately this is not presently possible for both technical and billing reasons and so they have to provide a limited number of products which both suit the majority of consumers and the technical limitations of their network.

As far as I can tell the genuine reasons for increased upstream bandwidth are P2P applications, VPN connections and uploading of data to websites. Of these, only a small percentage of users require faster VPN connections to their offices and uploading of data to websites is a very transient activity which is not generally performed that often. This leaves P2P which is the real reason the majority of the minority screaming for more upstream are doing so, whatever they'd have you believe.

Paul2k12 · 12 Aug 2005 at 18:24

Just read about this, Great News!!

Can anyone tell me how fast I will be able to download something?

My current rate is about 245KB

Thanks

Well done BY

Paul2k12

Duke · 12 Aug 2005 at 18:46

Potentially 1.28MB/sec excluding overheads :cool:

ThE-NiNjA · 12 Aug 2005 at 19:22

Paul2k12 said:
Just read about this, Great News!!

Can anyone tell me how fast I will be able to download something?

My current rate is about 245KB

Thanks

Well done BY

Paul2k12

Might be about 1280kb/s

Paul2k12 · 12 Aug 2005 at 19:26

Sounds Great

Thanks

Paul

Jabbs · 12 Aug 2005 at 19:47

I was pleased at just getting 2 meg nildram.lol

Steve · 12 Aug 2005 at 20:32

on 3mbit at full whack I am sending 20KB up If I share more than 10KB I start to max my upload and my download drops to the same level as I stop sending ack req

With broadnabnd speeds increasing people want to send film attatchments webcam feeds etc whilst downloading and surfing, but with pants uploads this isnt possible.

Also with the boom in home networks and multiple pcs in a property more date is being sent.

Thank god I am with NTL 10mbit 386k would suck to the exstreme and I would go ADSL.

ThE-NiNjA · 12 Aug 2005 at 21:30

Steve said:
on 3mbit at full whack I am sending 20KB up If I share more than 10KB I start to max my upload and my download drops to the same level as I stop sending ack req

With broadnabnd speeds increasing people want to send film attatchments webcam feeds etc whilst downloading and surfing, but with pants uploads this isnt possible.

Also with the boom in home networks and multiple pcs in a property more date is being sent.

Thank god I am with NTL 10mbit 386k would suck to the exstreme and I would go ADSL.

Exactly! All this insane down speed but nothign really to utilise it on. However your correct about the upload speed issue.

UOcUK Poopscoop · 12 Aug 2005 at 21:33

Newshosting + 10mb upgrade is going to blow my mind.

Can't believe the negative posts, I for one couldn't give a fig about upload speed.

Been with BY for years now and have never had a problem.......just free upgrades. Superb!

I actually pity people in non BY areas.

Vertigo · 12 Aug 2005 at 22:23

Steve said:
on 3mbit at full whack I am sending 20KB up

Then you need to sort your computer out. Maxing my 2mb downstream connection produces 7.5KB/s upstream.

With broadnabnd speeds increasing people want to send film attatchments webcam feeds etc whilst downloading and surfing, but with pants uploads this isnt possible.

Of course it's possible. If you want to upload and download at the same time then that's fine, you just won't be able to achieve the maximum nominal speed in both directions at once. If you want to download at full speed just down do it when you're uploading too.

Thank god I am with NTL 10mbit 386k would suck to the exstreme

Yes of course it will :rolleyes:

ThE-NiNjA · 12 Aug 2005 at 22:39

hence 10 down will take the 40 upload before you even start upping anything.

then your upload gets saturated and makes the dowmload suffer.
a lot of people cant seem to understand this.

divine` · 12 Aug 2005 at 22:41

UOcUK Poopscoop said:
I actually pity people in non BY areas.

I Pity me too.

And NTL are horrifically poor in my area aswell.

and my current phone line will only do 1Mb

jon86 · 12 Aug 2005 at 23:14

NTL's fine where I live. (in Hertfordshire, connecting to the Luton hub) :/

Spyhop · 13 Aug 2005 at 01:34

ThE-NiNjA said:
hence 10 down will take the 40 upload before you even start upping anything.

then your upload gets saturated and makes the dowmload suffer.
a lot of people cant seem to understand this.

No, in most situations that is just not true. Please stop parroting when you've no idea what you're going on about.

mcmad · 13 Aug 2005 at 08:13

ThE-NiNjA said:
hence 10 down will take the 40 upload before you even start upping anything.

then your upload gets saturated and makes the dowmload suffer.
a lot of people cant seem to understand this.

umm, I just tried maxing out my 4 meg connection..

using DUmeter to monitor..

494.1 kB/sec DL 9.0kB/sec UL

so 2.5 X that for 10 meg would give under 25 up

dont see a problem :confused:

Vertigo · 13 Aug 2005 at 08:34

ThE-NiNjA said:
hence 10 down will take the 40 upload before you even start upping anything.

Fine, if you want to download at the full speed then don't upload at the same time. The only people for whom this is a genuine problem are those using P2P applications which throttle downloads depending on uploads.

then your upload gets saturated and makes the dowmload suffer.
a lot of people cant seem to understand this.

I understand it fine, try reading what I said earlier about maxing each direction simultaneously. Yes the Bulldog ratio gives you more room to play with, so if uploading and downloading simultaneously is important to you then that's obviously going to be a better option. The point is that for the vast majority of people, this isn't a priority.

The fact remains that, despite assertions to the contrary, there is more than enough upstream bandwidth on the BY services to max out the downstream link, providing you're not uploading much at the same time. Personally I don't upload much at all and when I do need to then I can easily do it when I'm not downloading so I'll have all my upstream available to cope with the ACKs when downloading at full tilt.