BMW and M Power Owners

The SportContact6 is just better all round on the M3. Less road noise to the point of mostly hearing just wind noise on the motorway, much better wet performance (you can feel it in the steering wheel and how composed the car is now vs the PSS) and the rim protection is a bit wider too so a bit of extra kerb damage protection.

It helps that the CSC6 are cheaper too.

As for size, go with whatever you prefer. I chose CSL size on stock 19" wheels. The tyres fit just fine and are an acceptable upsize. The standard rear alloy is teh same width as CSL anyway, the front on the CS is half an inch wider but the standard alloy fits the size perfectly anyway.

Let's face it, PSS are old news now and there's a cheaper and better UHP tyre on the market :cool:
 
MPSS? I'd either get CSC6 (a fantastic tyre) or wait for the new PS4 over the PSS now Michelin have officially announced they are ditching them.
 
I always really liked Contis, but I found that they wear SO quickly compared to some other brands. I find Michelins wear especially well compared to other brands, yet still deliver the performance. PS4 will be interesting to look at though.

BMW OE spec PSS are different to the standard tyre, and that's what I'll keep putting on the M135i.
 
DRZ said:
MPSS? I'd either get CSC6 (a fantastic tyre) or wait for the new PS4 over the PSS now Michelin have officially announced they are ditching them.
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PS4 replaces PS3 but it is as good if not better than MPSS, unfortunately MPSS will remain for now as PS4 is only in sizes that PS3 was, which means it is limited in larger sizes.

But quite correct the CSC6 looks very promising and is on parr if not better than MPSS, though it is to early to tell how well CSC6 wears, this was a great feature of MPSS is they last a very long time. :)
 
Gibbo said:
PS4 replaces PS3 but it is as good if not better than MPSS, unfortunately MPSS will remain for now as PS4 is only in sizes that PS3 was, which means it is limited in larger sizes.
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PS4 > PSS

Michelin said:
While Pilot Sport 4 replaces the Pilot Sport 3, it’s an improvement on the Pilot Super Sport, not a “new” Pilot Sport 3, in design and technology. In comparative testing in 18" sizes, Pilot Sport 4 outperforms the Pilot Super Sport in 99% of everyday situations, with the added benefit of 10-15% improved wear. The other 1% is on a dry track where the Pilot Super Sport would outperform the Pilot Sport 4 by a couple of tenths of a second around a long track. For more track focused track drivers we will expand the range of Pilot Sport Cup 2 over the next few years.
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PSS always struck me as an internet hero tyre - it's amazing on a dry track so the entire internet loves it and considers it the best tyre ever but it always seemed to trail the other UHP tyres in areas that actually mattered.

The new PS4 seems to fix this and looks like a candidate for best UHP tyre on the market for road use.

My understanding is that PS4 is basically the new Michelin UHP tyre for retail, will be available in larger sizes, and PSS will only continue in situations whereby there is an OEM contract in place.
 
[TW]Fox;29355460 said:
PS4 > PSS



PSS always struck me as an internet hero tyre - it's amazing on a dry track so the entire internet loves it and considers it the best tyre ever but it always seemed to trail the other UHP tyres in areas that actually mattered.

The new PS4 seems to fix this and looks like a candidate for best UHP tyre on the market for road use.

My understanding is that PS4 is basically the new Michelin UHP tyre for retail, will be available in larger sizes, and PSS will only continue in situations whereby there is an OEM contract in place.
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Having tried so many tyres on M3's and 911 the MPSS was a true hero on both road and track for me in all conditions. But for me subjective feel out ranks everything else, I don't give a toss about if a tyre has more wet grip but the subjective feel is lesser, what use is that to someone who enjoys driving. That is why MPSS was such a hit, plus I've not come across any tyre that wears anything like it. 10 track days and 10,000 miles in the 911 on a set of MPSS and I only changed them because they had hit their heat cycle limit and beyond due to the track work.

I do hope the PS4 does replace MPSS but right now it seems PS4 is 18" and below, as I'd far rather stick PS4 on the Mustang than MPSS, but I won't be losing any sleep as the MPSS is a great tyre and at least the rears will last longer than 5000 miles like a set of Pzero's do. :D
 
Not sure if my MPG thingy is broke but i managed 43MPG on a 90mile run the other day.

Was at 47MPG until i hit traffic when i got home.

Amazing at around 80mph the engine is only at 2.5k revs.
 
That was the point of the N53 - it is a stratified direct injection engine designed to be particularly efficient, over 40mpg as astonishing as it sounds isn't unusual.

The market responded by ignoring it like the plague and buying diesels.
 
[TW]Fox;29354313 said:
It should seem bad to you, because it is.

The actual cost of buying a new 320i M Sport through a broker is £24181. Yes - thats it - £24k. For a brand new 320i M Sport.

After 4 years, it'd be worth about £12k.

So the real cost of the car over 4 years is £12k, or £3k a year. Anything above that is simply the cost of whatever 'deal' you have to have in order to actually get the cash together to have the car.



Given that they start at £25k for a 2.0 TFSI S-Tronic S-Line (plus options on top) at a sensible discounted price and the depreciation on them is fairly low, then yes I'd have a heart attack if I saw how much people had convinced themselves was reasonable to spend every month on driving a TT because all that mattered to them was making sure the monthly payments were 'affordable' whilst giving no regard whatsoever to how much the deal actually cost them in total.



359 * 12 = 4300?
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Trust me my monthly payments aren't low. I wish they were but it is a expensive car in the first place.

[TW]Fox;29354349 said:
No idea how that compares to the price Blackhawk had in mind when he said I'd have a heart attack :p
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You'd be closer if you doubled that figure you mentioned. :o
 
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It's a £25k car in the first place (plus options).

I've no idea what your payments are and I think you'd probably be opening yourself up to pages of ranting and arguments if you revealed them so I'd advise you not to, but it isn't THAT expensive a car in the grand scheme of things. It should be fairly cheap to own over a fixed period because the discounted prices are not enormous and the residuals are good.

The problem is that people get drawn into PCP's because the headline monthly rate fits a budget and the desire for the car takes over. It's difficult to blame them too much because this is exactly what the product is designed and marketed to do - conceal the total cost by appealing to the heart. So they sign up because the monthly looks fine.

Then they get into PCPception and realise the fancy another car, so they pop to the dealer who is more than happy to help them 'get into' something else. There will be negative equity in the deal - there ALWAYS is because most PCP deals contain very low deposits - but it's ok, because the salesman can wrap that up in the new car. So away drives the customer in his new car, for only a bit more a month, etc etc.

This continues until you get to the daft situation whereby you are driving Car 4 but some of your finance is still for the negative equity in Car 1!

PCP's can have a place in a sensible financial decision but only after evaluating the complete cost of the deal and only after realising the effects of not seeing it out until the term ends etc.

And IMHO you can almost always do better than a PCP if you've either got the capital available or have somebody prepared to lend it to you - many high street banks are offering rates as low as 3.3% now.

Obviously the monthly will be higher, despite the overall cost being lower, because you've not been able to 'offset' half the debt until the 'end', which is why these often much, much cheaper options get overlooked.
 
How is it £25k though when an s-line TT with s-tronic retail price is £34k+. Not including any options, inc climate control!

I do always plan to get a bank loan, and think this car is a keeper now so will probably investigate that route after a year or two.
 
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Blackhawk47 said:
How is it £25k though when an s-line TT with s-tronic retail price is £34k+. Not including any options, inc climate control!
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The list price is meaningless. All that matters is the achievable price after discount.

I did make a slight mistake, I quoted the price of the Sport DSG not the S-Line for which I apologise. However having checked again, the TT Coupe 2.0 TFSI 230 S-LINE DSG is available for £27365 inc all fees through a broker. With a couple of hours on the phone you'd find a dealer that'd match or beat that (The broker cars are dealer supplied anyway).

It's the same with most cars - picking BMW's for example a 530d M Sport is £44k list... expensive huh? Yet actually you can get them for £33k brand new in your choice of colour...

List price should be completely disregarded. It's irrelevant.
 
That sounds more like it. Mine was over £30k and that is after discounts (£7k). I wanted quite a few options, turns out probably the most expensive options. Sat nav/tech? That will be near £2k... :o

I still think £350 odd quid a month is not unreasonable IMO for what it is. Probably pocket change to some people.
 
About what I'd expect for the car tbh, though in reality total cost over the term is far more important if you're trying to make some sort of judgement on 'value'
 
geez that is a lot of pennies.
i mean if you have to travel around doing a lot of miles a year and need reliability then yes, but paying that much and more a month just for making a status is barmy.
 
[TW]Fox;29355698 said:
With a couple of hours on the phone you'd find a dealer that'd match or beat that (The broker cars are dealer supplied anyway).
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I've rung quite a few of my 'local' dealers with my broadspeed quote and none will get near it - some have literally laughed down the phone. I'd love to know which dealer will supply the vehicle if I order through them.
 
cadmunkey said:
I've rung quite a few of my 'local' dealers with my broadspeed quote and none will get near it - some have literally laughed down the phone. I'd love to know which dealer will supply the vehicle if I order through them.
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Just go with the broker then and you'll find out I guess. There are other brokers, too. If the other dealers laugh then I guess they lose a sale?
 
If you want the car, order through them and find out?

There will be negative equity in the deal - there ALWAYS is because most PCP deals contain very low deposits
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This is clearly untrue. Perhaps USUALLY is the correct word. I'm on my 4th PCP deal, and this is currently the ONLY time I have been in Negative equity, when looking to change, which is usually after 12-18 months, and deposits are never THAT large. And this time it's most likely because I massively underestimated how much I'd like driving the car, so did many more miles than planned in it.
 
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