BoE confirms what we knew already: migration driving down wages

[grudas]

the problem is not the immigration, the problem is the fact that taking benefits and doing no work = the same as working your bum off for 40-50hours/week and having the same amount of money at the end. There's no real motivation to work really.

on a different note, many of those "Lithuanians" that advertise on the "Lithuanian" web sites have their own businesses and they want people of their own language to work for them so in theory, the job would not be there in the first place if we had no immigration.

 

[Freakbro]

Well, I've just looked at the local college to him and the only free adult courses I can see are only available to employees as business support - great

But I will tell him to start looking around online and enquiring at other colleges to see if there is anything, thanks for the input

 

[robgmun]

the problem is not the immigration, the problem is the fact that taking benefits and doing no work = the same as working your bum off for 40-50hours/week and having the same amount of money at the end. There's no real motivation to work really.

My biggest issue at the moment is child benefit going overseas, that needed to stop like yesterday

 

[mmj_uk]

Bank of England must be full of racists them, or is it just when Nigel Farage suggests it?

Here's how the BBC reported it.

Not quite so sensational?

They've obviously chosen to focus on 'productivity' rather than the negative impact on wages and living conditions.

 

[glenimp617]

Seems we have a lot of ukip haters who agree with their policies

I think the reality is that most people agree with what ukip are saying, yet refuse to deviate away from their chosen party (once a tory, always a tory mentality)

 

[spoffle]

Bank of England must be full of racists them, or is it just when Nigel Farage suggests it?



They've obviously chosen to focus on 'productivity' rather than the negative impact on wages and living conditions.

It seems what they actually said varies depending on where you get it from, so...

Seems we have a lot of ukip haters who agree with their policies

I think the reality is that most people agree with what ukip are saying, yet refuse to deviate away from their chosen party (once a tory, always a tory mentality)

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[scorza]

Here's how the BBC reported it.

Not quite so sensational?

That's a report on an interview this morning, whereas the report in the OP is about a report released by the BoE yesterday. Tbh, my analysis of Carney's interview on the Today programme is that the powers that be have phoned him up and torn a strip off him for letting the cat out of the bag yesterday. His comments also do not make sense. Of course increasing the supply of labour is going to hit productivity.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

That's a report on an interview this morning, whereas the report in the OP is about a report released by the BoE yesterday. Tbh, my analysis of Carney's interview on the Today programme is that the powers that be have phoned him up and torn a strip off him for letting the cat out of the bag yesterday. His comments also do not make sense. Of course increasing the supply of labour is going to hit productivity.

Nah the two align.

Immigrants increase GDP, BUT they are typically doing lower skilled jobs and hence productivity reduces in an expanded but on average lower value added workforce.

This is what people like Dp work on, taking a small chunk of data will always paint a picture.

But its not just workers its also investment that boosts productivity, which may have zero effect on GDP, potentially even negative. I am sure we see some surge in investment now with the assumption that wealth generator will feel happier they have 5 years before the risk of the welfare party getting back into power.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Seems we have a lot of ukip haters who agree with their policies

I think the reality is that most people agree with what ukip are saying, yet refuse to deviate away from their chosen party (once a tory, always a tory mentality)

No, not most people and that is an asinine thing to claim. Even proportionally, it's absolutely not what most people are saying.

e: wait, are you talking about the failed Tories who had to jump ship to UKIP to try and resurrect their tragic careers? That's a different, but funnier, argument.

 

[joeyjojo]

BOE is useless and incompetent, they failed again and again at managing the economy and this canadian is doing no better either.

Are you getting confused between the Bank of England and the Chancellor of the Exchequer? The Bank stepped in during the crash by cutting interest rates and backing a stimulus program. Osborne as Chancellor reversed that decision and put us back into recession.

the problem is not the immigration, the problem is the fact that taking benefits and doing no work = the same as working your bum off for 40-50hours/week and having the same amount of money at the end. There's no real motivation to work really.

Do you even know how much a single able-bodied person can get in benefits? JSA is up to £73.10 a week. You can earn more working just 12 hours a week on minimum wage.

Anyway the bit chanjy commented is far more interesting. The amount of labour entering the market is 10 times higher from locals and the elderly than it is from immigrants. Obviously the torygraph didn't include that fact.

I assume this is because there are far more locals here than foreigners, so even if the same number of migrants come as new locals enter the market, far more total labour comes from locals and the old.

 

[grudas]

Are you getting confused between the Bank of England and the Chancellor of the Exchequer? The Bank stepped in during the crash by cutting interest rates and backing a stimulus program. Osborne as Chancellor reversed that decision and put us back into recession.



Do you even know how much a single able-bodied person can get in benefits? JSA is up to £73.10 a week. You can earn more working just 12 hours a week on minimum wage.

Anyway the bit chanjy commented is far more interesting. The amount of labour entering the market is 10 times higher from locals and the elderly than it is from immigrants. Obviously the torygraph didn't include that fact.

I assume this is because there are far more locals here than foreigners, so even if the same number of migrants come as new locals enter the market, far more total labour comes from locals and the old.

that's allowance for food/booze you're forgetting rent, council tax etc which is where a lot of money goes too.

 

[scorza]

the problem is not the immigration, the problem is the fact that taking benefits and doing no work = the same as working your bum off for 40-50hours/week and having the same amount of money at the end. There's no real motivation to work really.

So how does driving down the price of labour solve that problem then? Maybe if people could earn £15 an hour shelf-stacking in Tescos they'd be less likely to rot on benefits?

 

[joeyjojo]

Reading this again, can anybody actually tell me what was said to suggest migration is driving down wages?

I've found articles on the Telegraph, Daily Mail, and Express, but none of them actually have any detail. They all include the numbers of migrants, but no actual suggestions by the BoE or Carney that this is related to wage growth.

In fact where they do contain quotes they're deliberately misleading (surprise surprise). E.g. this from the Mail

Speaking in public for the first time since the election, the Canadian bank governor said the UK labour force had ‘expanded significantly’ in recent years. This is partly explained by an increase in older workers and a willingness to work longer hours but Mr Carney also blamed ‘strong population growth partly driven by net migration’.

It's not "partly explained", it's 90% explained by the increase in older workers and locals taking on more hours!

Poor guy, having to run around today doing interviews to try to combat the wilful misrepresentation of these rags.

 

[gobbo]

Hang on, you say "confirm", the statement from the BoE says "suggest"

They are rather far apart in terms of definitions

There's no way we should vote to stay in the EU unless somehow Cameron manages to negotiate an opt-out for Britain on the free movement of people.

That's never going to happen, also why make free movement of people the single EU issue, remember it means you can up sticks and move to another country to live/work if you want to, it's not just a one way street

 

[Stretch]

The polish can wash my car for a fiver, the english a tenner

I'll use the polish one thanks

This pretty much sums up the problem. In fact, I don't remember seeing a hand car-wash in the UK before the 2004 enlargement.

When you look at immigration at a national level, talk of wages being depressed is easy to look at as a negative. However, on a personal level, most people wouldn't want to pay more for their fruit and veg, builders, cleaners, retail workers, factory workers etc.

It would be interesting to find out exactly how much wages have been depressed, and if that reduction is offset by the cheaper services they now have access to. It would also be interesting to find what the economic multiplying effect of migrant labour is on the wider economy.

I'm not sure what people expect the government to do about the problem, but there's no doubt in my mind that leaving the EU just to improve the living standards of a minority of people in the UK seems incredibly short-sighted. The current government strategy seem spot on imo. Remove access to benefits for migrants, and if they don't find work they have to leave.

The best way to protect against poor wages is to offer something migrates can't.

So how does driving down the price of labour solve that problem then? Maybe if people could earn £15 an hour shelf-stacking in Tescos they'd be less likely to rot on benefits?

But they are both being on benefits. You don't need to pay a shelf stacker £15h, and the only way they are going to earn that sum is through government legislation, and the money will indirectly come from the public.

I would support an increase in the minimum wage, but not to £15h, and not restricting EU migrants from working in the UK.

 

[cheesyboy]

Reading this again, can anybody actually tell me what was said to suggest migration is driving down wages?

I've found articles on the Telegraph, Daily Mail, and Express, but none of them actually have any detail. They all include the numbers of migrants, but no actual suggestions by the BoE or Carney that this is related to wage growth.

In fact where they do contain quotes they're deliberately misleading (surprise surprise). E.g. this from the Mail



It's not "partly explained", it's 90% explained by the increase in older workers and locals taking on more hours!

Poor guy, having to run around today doing interviews to try to combat the wilful misrepresentation of these rags.

It's no wonder we get policies designed to appeal to morons, when the press feeds into people's insecurities and fears in such overt ways, and the less critically minded among us just lap it up.

It's not like these were even opinion pieces, where you expect a level of partisanship - they are purporting to be actual news reporting.

 

[spoffle]

So how does driving down the price of labour solve that problem then? Maybe if people could earn £15 an hour shelf-stacking in Tescos they'd be less likely to rot on benefits?

What's Tescos?

 

[ubersonic]

So how does driving down the price of labour solve that problem then? Maybe if people could earn £15 an hour shelf-stacking in Tescos they'd be less likely to rot on benefits?

What's Tescos?

It's the plural of Tesco, sort of like people is the plural of person.

 

[StriderX]

It's the plural of Tesco, sort of like people is the plural of person.

Ahem Tesco's

 

[ubersonic]

Ahem Tesco's

No, an apostrophe implies ownership or a missing letter, I.E Tesco's property or Tesco didn't have any bread.