Boy removed from school in transgender rights row

d_brennen said:
Within the school uniform. Mine is 5 so hardly the best person to decide with regards to what's appropriate to wear for the given day, she's wear the summer dress complete with white socks in a monsoon given the choice.

5/6 year olds with "gender issues" are more than likely mirroring their parent's problems would you not suspect?
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I feel choice is important for kids, helps them develop into better human beings than just being told what to do all the time.

I am going to guess that for this kid the parents are fairly comfortable about gender nonconformity if they have gone out and got the girls school uniform for their boy.

However strict parents can also be a problem. If a boy doesn't really like what he is constantly told are boy things then he is possibly going to question his gender. He may also question his sexuality. Same for a girl, though girls seem to have a bit more leeway in that respect (they can like superheroes and wear trousers and no one cares).
 
Tefal said:
gender is determined by society hence you can pick.
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You use homosexuality being wrong as an example of society incorrectly dictating something. If society is wrong about gender (it's not real, it's fictitious, men and women possess the same cognitive abilities), then for all intents and purposes, it's not real. So if you say gender is a social construct (and such ideologies are potentially damning), saying that kids can choose their gender (and perpetuate certain stereotypes about genders) is also damning.
 
RDM said:
I feel choice is important for kids, helps them develop into better human beings than just being told what to do all the time.

I am going to guess that for this kid the parents are fairly comfortable about gender nonconformity if they have gone out and got the girls school uniform for their boy.

However strict parents can also be a problem. If a boy doesn't really like what he is constantly told are boy things then he is possibly going to question his gender. He may also question his sexuality. Same for a girl, though girls seem to have a bit more leeway in that respect (they can like superheroes and wear trousers and no one cares).
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What if the child just flat out does not want to wear school uniform? Would the parents be cruel to force them to wear what is expected in the dress code?

Edit: That a rhetorical question, 5-6 year old children dress how they are told for school. Parents can, if they must, let them wear gender neutral beige boiler suits or pink tutus at home
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
snip
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Hamzelou, 2011 - is a paper (and when I say "paper", I mean, article here) which specifically suggests that men and women have different brain matter characteristics

Antonio Guillamon’s team at the National University of Distance Education in Madrid, Spain, think they have found a better way to spot a transsexual brain. In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who’d had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females. They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-tomale transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/ j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). “It’s the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised,” Guillamon says.

Turns out Dr. Antonio Guillamon has released a semi recent review titled: A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism. So I know what I'm reading later.

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
However it's utterly stupid to assume that because you have certain physical bits that the chemical reactions in the brain are going to align accordingly!
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Oops
 
d_brennen said:
What if the child just flat out does not want to wear school uniform? Would the parents be cruel to force them to wear what is expected in the dress code?

Edit: That a rhetorical question, 5-6 year old children dress how they are told for school. Parents can, if they must, let them wear gender neutral beige boiler suits or pink tutus at home
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Why does everything have to be extreme? You said your kids get told what to wear, I said that mine had choice within certain parameters which is the uniform code of the school not that they could wear whatever they wanted.
 
exhashdotdot said:
Hamzelou, 2011 - is a paper (and when I say "paper", I mean, article here) which specifically suggests that men and women have different brain matter characteristics

Antonio Guillamon’s team at the National University of Distance Education in Madrid, Spain, think they have found a better way to spot a transsexual brain. In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who’d had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females. They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-tomale transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/ j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). “It’s the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised,” Guillamon says.

Turns out Dr. Antonio Guillamon has released a semi recent review titled: A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism. So I know what I'm reading later.



Oops
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lawl
That proves the point I was making.
The female transgender individuals had brain chemistry the same as males even though they had vaginas. (i.e the physical body bits didn't align with normal brain chemistry for that sex, ergo it's not a choice like a lot of idiots think)
 
RDM said:
Why does everything have to be extreme? You said your kids get told what to wear, I said that mine had choice within certain parameters which is the uniform code of the school not that they could wear whatever they wanted.
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What's extreme about telling a 6 year old boy that he really can't wear a dress to school? Something like "no darling, I'm afraid that isn't allowed honey. Here's your shirt and trousers" :p

I am sure my daughter would love to go to school dressed as Doc McStuffins but she just can't
 
h4rm0ny said:
I'm surprised by that. Note, I didn't say "calling for", either. A number of universities in the USA today have applied different admissions criteria (which include SAT scores) according to race. The University of Michigan did. The University of California did. Harvard. Princeton. I know more have, but those are names to hand. Whether this is legal is an issue that has actually reached the Supreme Court of the USA. Fisher v. University of Texas at Austin would be an example case, but it's really not hard to find. What do you consider an "ultra-conservative conspiracy blog"? Is the LA Times acceptable?

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html#page=1
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I've just read that link and it doesn't say that SAT scores are being weighted by race. Instead, it says that factors other than SAT scores (such as being an athlete or playing an instrument to a certain level) are being taken into consideration for entry. This has a negative effect on Asian-Americans where a lot of parents believe that's SAT score are everything.
 
Nature did a great article on this a few years ago, I strongly suggest people read it as it's not as black & white as some people here seem to think it is!

I1WQJGn.png

Biologists may have been building a more nuanced view of sex, but society has yet to catch up. True, more than half a century of activism from members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community has softened social attitudes to sexual orientation and gender. Many societies are now comfortable with men and women crossing conventional societal boundaries in their choice of appearance, career and sexual partner. But when it comes to sex, there is still intense social pressure to conform to the binary model.

This pressure has meant that people born with clear DSDs often undergo surgery to 'normalize' their genitals. Such surgery is controversial because it is usually performed on babies, who are too young to consent, and risks assigning a sex at odds with the child's ultimate gender identity — their sense of their own gender. Intersex advocacy groups have therefore argued that doctors and parents should at least wait until a child is old enough to communicate their gender identity, which typically manifests around the age of three, or old enough to decide whether they want surgery at all.
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Source = nature
 
exhashdotdot said:
Exactly - so gender isn't a social construct?
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The idea that it's a binary thing dictated by your genitalia and that then dictates all manner of things about who you are and how you should behave is the social construct. The alternative is that people are smeared out across a wide spectrum of "gender" with some men expressing behaviour we typically (stereotypically, often) expect of women, or vice versa, or expressing both, or neither, or anywhere along that line to a greater or lesser degree.
 
Amazed at this duplicity on this thread. I confront a number of posters on their supposed 'knowledge' of the parents (of the skirt wearing 6 year old child or the child themselves) position/behaviour and through reasoned debate, something like a consensus emerges, that strongly applying gender to very small children clearly becomes increasingly absurd. The younger they are the more they all tend towards looking like Churchill.

We do have evidence that the parents of another child, accused of bullying (the second member of their family to have this levelled at them) have labelled the skirt wearing six year old, transgender, obviously newspapers/media will sell copy/click bate idiots on the back of the media campaigning, bullying family, position.

I go to work, get back home, same old people peddling the same old assumptions and a load of rubbish about the effects of ill defined movements they don't like, but can't seem to explain clearly why, let's finish the job here and New Godwin the whole thread: The whole problem here is Cultural Marxism :)

I've said before, Eddie Izzard went to school and he's hardly the only male to wear ladies clothes (we're British, the python invented the lumberjack sketch and the two ronnies predicted the whole awful future controlled by the liberal elite, in the worm that turned years ago). If one is rich/privileged enough, it's not likely this would even be an issue, just eccentric!

By the way, the above was in a comedy sketch show and in no way Cultural Marxism at work or at the behest of the FemaNazi (though the uniforms fit). :)
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Nature did a great article on this a few years ago, I strongly suggest people read it as it's not as black & white as some people here seem to think it is!

I1WQJGn.png



Source = nature
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That's like saying it's "simplistic" to say humans have 5 fingers (pedant's go away :p).

"It's too simplistic to say humans have 5 fingers because look... 0.000001% of people have more or less than that!"
 
They should just make all school kids wear the same style Trowse as shirts.. Problem fixed... It would stop (or at least hinder) girls trying to look like trams..
 
FoxEye said:
That's like saying it's "simplistic" to say humans have 5 fingers (pedant's go away :p).

"It's too simplistic to say humans have 5 fingers because look... 0.000001% of people have more or less than that!"
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Even with No of fingers or other phenotypes an agreed framework would be needed, how much of a stub counts, are 10 stubs to the first knuckle 5 fingers, the beadle is an example!

Frankly a clear determination of how to classify intersex people is not likely widely agreed other than by people peddling your above and clearly flawed myth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Rather than assuming 0.0000.....x% accept that in organisms of complexity that reproduce sexually intersex does (and has throughout history) exist and an appreciable (and regionally varying) number may exist with some studies proposing as high as 1.7% of the population.

Just because something hasn't affected me or my loved ones directly isn't a reason to dismiss it, especially using flawed analogies!
 
You are a boy or girl, no changing, no in between.


In terms of gender you can identify as a a wooden plank as far as I care but keep it to yourself and don't try to push it on others its in your head, keep it there.
 
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This posted up on facebook

Any *good* counter arguments which aren't just nit picking at the fine points, but the picture on a whole is accurate

21558759_1009222355882326_5437603534066727250_n.jpg
 
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