Brexit thread - what happens next

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Glaucus said:
nice change of topic and yes its pretty easy to completely rubbish your stance.

only better than Antarctica, really,
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=66

quite litteraly everything you said in here, is not only utterly wrong, its easy to show.
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It wasn't a change of topic, i just don't believe that the EU has ever had anyone bar the central European countries best interest at heart.

So the EU is performing well in comparison to other continents?
 
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Trusty said:
It wasn't a change of topic, i just don't believe that the EU has ever had anyone bar the central European countries best interest at heart.

So the EU is performing well in comparison to other continents?
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now you just show total lack of basic economics. it is far easier to grow when you start with essentially nothing, which is why poor regions always have huge growth and top the list.

so easy many countries in eu including us (well up until a few days ago) where doing well.

and your first point again is utter rubbish, we weren't part of what was called the big 3 for nothing. its because we had absolutely massive say in eu. not only did we have such big say, EU has also bent over backwards for us, look at all our little exceptions no others have got.
 
Osborne is talking now

Quite smug about the austerity measures we've had, clear that he didn't want brexit, says the government should uphold the decision of the referendum.

That said he also states that we should only invoke article 50 once we know the offers that are on the table.
 
Glaucus said:
now you just show total lack of basic economics. it is far easier to grow when you start with essentially nothing, which is why poor regions always have huge growth and top the list.

so easy many countries in eu including us (well up until a few days ago) where doing well.

and your first point again is utter rubbish, we weren't part of what was called the big 3 for nothing. its because we had absolutely massive say in eu. not only did we have such big say, EU has also bent over backwards for us, look at all our little exceptions no others have got.
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What little exceptions are these?

I understand it's easier to grow when you don't have anything, but it's not even about that, it's the fact the EU has been declining pretty badly. Do you think people in the southern countries would agree the EU has been beneficial to them?
 
borders and Greece debts are two big ones.

you really should stop talking rubbish when its clear you don't have any understanding at all.

eu has been very good. you can not blame things like Greece on the eu. that was entirely their own fault.

and if uk government had listened to uk public we would be in the same position, everyone wants more and pay less tax at the same time.
 
So it starts (The Times):

A Polish community centre was daubed with racist graffiti and far-right demonstrators chanted abuse outside a mosque amid a surge in suspected hate crimes following the referendum vote to leave the European Union.

Two men were arrested in Birmingham after a protest outside a mosque on Saturday where police confiscated a banner with the slogan “*********s not welcome”.

The Metropolitan police confirmed that they were investigating graffiti on the Polish cultural centre in Hammersmith as a suspected incident of racially motivated criminal damage.

Joanna Mludzinska, chairman of the centre, said its staff had been “very disturbed and upset” to find the offensive graffiti across the front of the building. However, she added: “We have been very moved and extremely grateful to our local councillors, MPs and neighbours who have come in.”

Officers were also investigating reports from Upton Park, east London, where a witness said that he went to the aid of a Polish man and his father who were beaten up on Saturday night.

The witness, who gave his name as Carlos, tweeted about the incident as he came across it: “Walking home, see these men laid out on the floor, thought they were drunk, took a photo, turns out they’ve been battered senseless by ‘English man, English man’. A son and his dad, dad’s unconscious. Blood everywhere.”

He waited at the scene until police and paramedics arrived. The older man was said to have suffered a broken arm while his son had severe facial injuries including a suspected broken jaw.

The witness told The Times that he was giving a full statement to the police.

Baroness Warsi, the Conservative peer who stopped supporting Leave because of the anti-immigrant tone of the campaign, said that the atmosphere on the streets of Britain was not good.

There were widespread reports of people suffering verbal abuse on the streets, in shops and cafés and at railway stations. In Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, laminated cards reading “Leave the EU, no more Polish vermin” were posted through letterboxes and left near a school.

Shazia Awan, a former Conservative parliamentary candidate and Remain campaigner in Wales, was told online: “Pack your bags and go home.”

After collating further incidents of abuse — including a doctor reporting racial comments in his local Asda supermarket — Ms Awan tweeted: “Wales wanted out, I think they want us all out with non-white skin. The state of abuse in Wales is shocking.”

The National Police Chiefs Council said that forces had drawn up plans for a possible racist surge after the referendum result and advised people to report all incidents. Amid rising tension and fear, community leaders called on prominent Leave campaigners to speak out against xenophobia.

Jasvir Singh, a barrister and co-chairman of Faith Forums London, said that he had received a dozen reports of people from South Asian backgrounds experiencing racist abuse since Thursday’s poll.

In the most serious case a Sikh builder was set upon in Dagenham, east London, by men who called him “terrorist scum bin Laden” and tried to pull off his turban before passers-by intervened to protect him.

“It feels like the Leave campaign and the fact it has succeeded has legitimised that rhetoric of blaming the ‘other’,” Mr Singh said. “Now that we’re on course for leaving the EU some people have been emboldened to air views in public that they would have been much more reticent about expressing in the past. It is time that instead of politicians arguing about who is going to be the next leader they should be calling for unity. Regardless of what happened, people need to feel safe here and they do not feel safe.”

Alicja Kaczmarek, a Polish community leader in Birmingham, said that in her ten years in Britain she had never before experienced such overt hostility. “My first feeling after the referendum was that many people made their decision on the basis of immigration and now they feel they have permission to be abusive,” she said.

Lady Warsi said that she had spent most of the weekend talking to organisations that tried to tackle racism. “They have shown some really disturbing early results from people being stopped in the street and saying: ‘Look, we voted Leave, it’s time for you to leave,’” she said.

The Muslim Council of Britain said it had collated details of 100 “hate incidents” since the referendum result.
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Trusty said:
The huge market which we never had a say in? The UK never had any input into that stuff, we're told do one yet we're the 5th biggest economy in the world. I say, let's trade with Europe and go out and trade with the rest of the world as well.
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This is simply not true. It is mind boggling and quite frankly scary you cast your vote so completely devoid of facts.

The UK is (or was) one of the big 3 of the EU. UK, France and Germany. We have/had a huge say in how the EU operated and managed to make many things to our advantage.

All our international trade agreements outside of the EU are now null and void as they were predicated on our EU membership. We use the EU as a huge bargaining tool to bring business to our shores and continue our growth.

You can argue our success actually came at the detriment to some of our EU partners but at least we were in the driving seat.

If you simply believe the headlines of tabloids where Polish people have stolen our jobs etc... etc... Romanians have just brought crime... we dont get to make our own decisions and we want our curvy bananas! And thats all you see from the EU then I feel truly sorry for you.

I wonder if the press feel any shame for what they are wrought on our country. They were just trying to sell newspapers and get advertising revenue but now they have lead us to the brink of disaster with their hyperbole, half truths and poorly contrived statistics.
 
Glaucus said:
borders and Greece debts are two big ones.

you really should stop talking rubbish when its clear you don't have any understanding at all.

eu has been very good. you can not blame things like Greece on the eu. that was entirely their own fault.

and if uk government had listened to uk public we would be in the same position, everyone wants more and pay less tax at the same time.
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What about Spain, Italy, Portugal? Why do so many countries want EU referendums now?
 
Trusty said:
What about Spain, Italy, Portugal? Why do so many countries want EU referendums now?
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same reason as us, idiot public and blind nationalism.

doesn't help when so many people think like you do, and have based your choice on utter hyperbole.
politicians do anything for power, just like BJ has. same is mirrored across Europe, plenty see it as an easy and cheap way to power.
 
Not over yet (The Times):

New UK legislation to trigger the formal treaty mechanism that would take Britain out of the EU will be required to facilitate Brexit, top QCs have warned.

The requirement for a new law could scupper the move to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, which sets out the legal process for a nation’s secession from the EU, because a majority of MPs backed Remain and could in principle block the Leave result in the Commons.

Geoffrey Robertson, QC, founder of Doughty Street Chambers, told The Times: “People think Brexit is a done deal; it’s not. Our democracy rests on parliamentary sovereignty, which is in the keeping of MPs, who make or break laws, and peers, who can block laws.

“Before Brexit can be triggered, parliament has to act by repealing the legislation that keeps Britain in the EU. And in that vote MPs are entitled to act according to their conscience and what is best for Britain.”

He predicted that MPs representing London and Scottish seats would likely “have no moral difficulty” in rejecting the result because their constituents did not vote for it. He insisted that others could “quite properly decide that by the time the repeal comes before parliament, probably in November, that Brexit would turn out badly for Britain, and decide to vote against it”.

He added: “It is novel in British constitutional tradition to be bound by referenda. Many countries have a provision for referenda. But we don’t have a written constitution, all we have are constitutional conventions, based on traditions and history, and they don’t make provision for referenda.

Another leading QC also said that new legislation would be required. Charles Flint, QC, from Blackstone Chambers, says in a letter to The Times published today: “Under the European Union Act 2011 . . . a change to the treaty on European Union, agreed between member states, would have required approval both by referendum and by act of parliament.”

Meanwhile, a row has broken out over the timing of the invocation of Article 50. Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission, and other leading figures in the EU have demanded that Britain exit the union swiftly. However Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, who backed Remain, said the decision was in Britain’s hands.

He told Peston on Sunday on ITV: “There is no imperative upon us to serve the notice at any particular time.”

His comments came as Washington confirmed that John Kerry, the US Secretary of State, will visit London today as part of a frantic round of diplomacy as the US grapples with the fallout from Thursday’s referendum.

Q&A: could we have a second referendum?
Another referendum? You can’t be serious! What are the rules for calling one?
It’s up to parliament to call a referendum by passing a bill in the Commons and Lords.

Must it be proposed by the government, or do opposition and backbench MPs have that power?
Any MP or peer can present a private member’s bill.

Surely “the decision has been taken and we have to make the best of it” as Hilary Benn, the former shadow foreign secretary, said? All referendums are legally non-binding on parliament but millions of voters would feel cheated if their wishes are overruled.

Can a second EU referendum be forced by the petition signed by more than 3.3 million people?
This can trigger a debate in parliament but is not binding.

So how could a second EU referendum happen?
An immediate re-run would seem politically impossible. Perhaps the only way would be to hold one on the outcome of Britain’s negotiations with the EU under Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty so that voters can have their say on the final deal. This would probably be in about two years’ time.

Could the Labour Party try to do this?
It would be a huge step given that millions of the party’s traditional core supporters opted for Leave.

What is the EU attitude towards a second referendum?
There is a long tradition of referendums being re-run on big EU issues, including twice in Ireland on the treaties of Nice and Lisbon after initial rejections.
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Glaucus said:
same reason as us, idiot public and blind nationalism.

doesn't help when so many people think like you do, and have based your choice on utter hyperbole.
politicians do anything for power, just like BJ has. same is mirrored across Europe, plenty see it as an easy and cheap way to power.
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Course, you'd prefer to make money at the expense of other countries for a failed ideology. I don't want an unaccountable party making deals for us. Everyone's an idiot in all those other countries then by the sounds of it.
 
Won't be as quick as some will have you believe (The Times):

Taking back powers from the European Union is set to tie up Westminster for perhaps a decade, it has been warned.

Weeding out unwanted legislation and putting in place powers to replace those that will disappear after Brexit will require “considerable” resources, according to a parliamentary expert.

The overhaul will put pressure on the civil service, which has been cut back significantly under David Cameron. It will mean the need for new bodies, such as an agriculture payments system, to be created despite the government’s pledge of a bonfire of the quangos.

Hannah White, from the Institute for Government, estimated that it could take ten years to sort out legislation. “Extricating the UK from its membership of the EU, establishing a new relationship and taking back responsibility for a range of significant policy areas will require considerable staff resource, expertise and time,” she said.

The European Communities Act (ECA) 1972 is the main piece of UK legislation that ensures the supremacy of Brussels laws. Some Leave supporters have suggested bypassing the need to invoke Article 50, which sets the terms of the divorce between the UK and the EU, by ditching the ECA to sever Britain’s ties with Brussels.

Such a move would go against the UK’s obligations under the Lisbon Treaty and risks seriously damaging the country’s reputation for sticking to its agreements at a time when it wants to negotiate new trade deals.

The House of Commons library said that there was “no totally accurate, rational or useful way” of calculating how many national laws are based on or influenced by the EU.
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Trusty said:
Course, you'd prefer to make money at the expense of other countries for a failed ideology. I don't want an unaccountable party making deals for us. Everyone's an idiot in all those other countries then by the sounds of it.
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This is the unfortunate consequence of democracy. What is best for the country isn't necessarily what the public want, not even the majority. Bit like a parent or teacher.

Our biggest problem is we can't trust the people in charge.
 
Trusty said:
Course, you'd prefer to make money at the expense of other countries for a failed ideology. I don't want an unaccountable party making deals for us. Everyone's an idiot in all those other countries then by the sounds of it.
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unaccountable.
eu is democratic and elected, more hyperbole from you.
I would rather the public woke up and stopped forcing the government to ask for all these stupid exceptions.
 
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