Britain secures agreement to join Indo-Pacific trade bloc

[Roar87]

Sorry I meant celebrating a **** deal whilst dumping a great one. Enjoy your scraps though.

Sure, the EU wanted a Political union and we didn't get a vote on joining that. When we did get a vote we chose not to be part of it. I'm sure most people would welcome close trading ties with the EU and being part of a free market, but the EU really wants to emulate the United States and make itself the Federal government of Europe. The UK as a majority didn't want that, we value our national identity and political independence. So it didn't constitute a "great" deal for us.

 

[VincentHanna]

Sure, the EU wanted a Political union and we didn't get a vote on joining that. When we did get a vote we chose not to be part of it. I'm sure most people would welcome close trading ties with the EU and being part of a free market, but the EU really wants to emulate the United States and make itself the Federal government of Europe. The UK as a majority didn't want that, we value our national identity and political independence. So it didn't constitute a "great" deal for us.

Weird that the french protests on retirement/pension age haven't spread to the whole of the EU though.

Almost like they are all separate countries with their own laws, problems etc.

 

[CapitalOne]

we value our national identity and political independence. So it didn't constitute a "great" deal for us.

That's a bit of a generalisation, I think you mean "over a 24 hour period 7 years ago a pinch over half of those polled".

 

[plasmahal]

Language, family ties, general preference, saying the UK is performing worse than the UK isn't the same as saying it is a third world hell hole nobody would want to come to. The EU is undoubtedly performing better than the UK post Brexit and pandemic to claim anything else is just silly and this new trade deal even by the governments own estimates isn't really very significant see my previous post on the subject!

I agree that language is a big factor, not so sure that family ties are though. I'm not disputing whether the EU is doing better but would make sense to stay somewhere that is more stable and adapt language etc to stay there and flourish rather than the UK.

 

[n111ck]

Weird that the french protests on retirement/pension age haven't spread to the whole of the EU though.

Almost like they are all separate countries with their own laws, problems etc.

If they are all seperate countries why all the comparisons between the UK and EU?

 

[NickK]

I did see some linkedin comments suggest this is adds 0.08% over 15 years..

 

[n111ck]

I did see some linkedin comments suggest this is adds 0.08% over 15 years..

Does it cost £350m a week lol

 

[Rilot]

Does it cost £350m a week lol

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

That's a bit of a generalisation, I think you mean "over a 24 hour period 7 years ago a pinch over half of those who actually voted".

Fixed, it was roughly only a third of those eligible who voted to leave.
I certainly know of people who didn't who now regret that not voting as we were mainly told we would not vote to leave as one of them put it to me.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Does it cost £350m a week lol

Leaving the Eu costs us more than that a week.

 

[CapitalOne]

I did see some linkedin comments suggest this is adds 0.08% over 15 years..

I assume that's 0.08% of the post Brexit GDP figure as well

 

[NickK]

Sure, the EU wanted a Political union and we didn't get a vote on joining that. When we did get a vote we chose not to be part of it. I'm sure most people would welcome close trading ties with the EU and being part of a free market, but the EU really wants to emulate the United States and make itself the Federal government of Europe. The UK as a majority didn't want that, we value our national identity and political independence. So it didn't constitute a "great" deal for us.

The UK had been part of the EU long enough to be part of the discussions leading to that.
I believe it was john major that signed the agreement that set the process in motion by accepting the move to become a federal state..
France also has voted it doesn’t want to lose it’s governing capacity.. yet it remains..

 

[jpaul]

If they are all seperate countries why all the comparisons between the UK and EU?

if they made economic/equality/health comparisons exclusively against France/Germany, our peers, we'd feel worse

 

[plasmahal]

The UK had been part of the EU long enough to be part of the discussions leading to that.
I believe it was john major that signed the agreement that set the process in motion by accepting the move to become a federal state..

And you'd expect in a functioning democracy, the people of the UK in 1993 would have got a say in such an important move as this.

 

[CapitalOne]

And you'd expect in a functioning democracy, the people of the UK in 1993 would have got a say in such an important move as this.

We're not ancient Greece, there have been plenty of other important things you could argue have the same or greater gravity but I guess because they aren't about the nationalist agenda it doesn't count? So no, you wouldn't expect that.

 

[plasmahal]

We're not ancient Greece, there have been plenty of other important things you could argue have the same or greater gravity but I guess because they aren't about the nationalist agenda it doesn't count? So no, you wouldn't expect that.

There was nothing more important at that time.

Do you support the Scottish nationalists and their desire for independence?

 

[CapitalOne]

There was nothing more important at that time.

What makes that such a shoe in for a referendum that doesn't count for anything else?

Do you support the Scottish nationalists and their desire for independence?

It's not up to me is it. They've probably had enough of leaving things though, it never seems to be a positive thing. They'd be fools though right to quit the CPTPP

 

[n111ck]

if they made economic/equality/health comparisons exclusively against France/Germany, our peers, we'd feel worse

Maybe / maybe not but it would be a more valid comparison.

Macron must rage that the discussion now is always UK / US / EU - no mention of little France in there lol.

Is Germany in recession yet?

 

[Terminal_Boy]

The UK had been part of the EU long enough to be part of the discussions leading to that.
I believe it was john major that signed the agreement that set the process in motion by accepting the move to become a federal state..
France also has voted it doesn’t want to lose it’s governing capacity.. yet it remains..

France has played the EU to her advantage from Day 1. She says she’ll follow Directive X and takes the money. If Directive X is likely to lose anyone votes at the National, Departmental or Mayoral level, it gets quietly ignored or implemented over glacial timescales and never enforced.

The U.K. should have used their EU membership to the country’s advantage, just like La France has, but every party in power since the U.K. joined failed to do so.

 

[ik9000]

We're not ancient Greece, there have been plenty of other important things you could argue have the same or greater gravity but I guess because they aren't about the nationalist agenda it doesn't count? So no, you wouldn't expect that.

The europe maastricht debate was huge at the time. Some did call for a vote on it. IIRC the arguing split the Tory party which together with the sleaze scandals etc meant labour got a shoe-in come 1997. Watch some old TV from the early 90s and even the satire shows are ripping into the rifts and debates on the pros and cons of signing Masstricht. Lisbon in 2007(?) was similarly important and while Ireland got a vote (and rejected it, only to be made to vote again in favour of it) the UK electorate didn't get consulted then either. France and Holland had voted prior to the treaty to reject key parts of the proposed European Constitution which had to be reworked as a result. Basically other countries did find ways to let the people have some say. Idk why we never did but sfaik the perception was it would create schism and probably not achieve an overall consensus ergo maintain the status quo and stay with the option that the governments at the time felt best benefits us overall. Sadly Cameron was too naive and assumed he could get a landslide win in favour of the EU so went for a vote to shut up the backbenchers. Oops.

Whereas voting against Maastricht, Nice, Lisbon etc could have allowed us to influence the treaties, particularly in the 90s when unanimous decisions were required, a referendum when we had it in 2016 was too late in the day to effect change and therefore we had to either stay in or leave. Would a public vote back then have been divisive and chaotic? Yes. But it would have been a more appropriate time to have it, and also without the BS of social media and online manipulation that we now get. Maybe just maybe that might have facilitated slightly more sensible debate and decision making. Who knows?