Bruce Lee vs....

Von Smallhausen · 4 Sep 2006 at 12:34

The_Dark_Side said:
"you cannot win, he's unbeatable"

advice to a certain Mr.C.Clay before beating Sonny Liston.

Good analogy. Liston was considered unbeatable as he had destroyed everyone in his path and battered Floyd Patterson to take the heavyweight title. Clay did the impossible.

A certain George Foreman was considered unbeatable as well having knocked world class heavyweights spark out including lifting Joe Frazier off his feet with an uppercut that makes me shudder.

Who was it that beat Foreman again ?

The_Dark_Side · 4 Sep 2006 at 12:38

s1lversurfer said:
Look it's simple...Any one of those 5'2" Tai kick Boxers would literally kick the living crapola outa them pro confined ring fighters. I've seen 6'5" US sailors dropped with 1 kick from those guys... Bruce Lee developed "Jeet Kune Do" and that style in a non limited arena would have beat thuggery fighting any day of the week.

my thought's on JKD...
it produces very unpredictable fighters, but not necessarily the most skillful.personally I don't think it's the best choice of style for the majority of it's practitioners either.
to borrow bits of other styles to assemble a system that works for the individual is an incredible vision, but on the flipside it can take 20 years to master a martial art so how can you be expected to master 5 or more?
even Bruce himself reverted back to pure Wing Chun when he faced an opponent that was very good as this was what he knew best...JKD is even based on it.

benjo plz. · 4 Sep 2006 at 12:46

The_Dark_Side said:
when in fact he wasn't even the best Wing Chun practitioner of his day.

No, but that's probably why he developed jkd. As a shot in the dark, Yip Man probably was.

busterboy · 4 Sep 2006 at 16:25

Mohinder said:
Lee was a martial artist turned actor, this guy is a professional fighter who makes his living entirely from beating the **** out of people - not pretending to.

You have nailed it in one..

Mohinder said:
I think size has something to do with it too,

Quite correct and has been quoted many times in this thread before.. :rolleyes:

Give me one instance where they have put a 9 stone fighter in with a heavyweight or even a light heavy and come out on top..

Guy's you have been watching too many movies, This is for real not rehearst with special effects.. :rolleyes:

Beren · 4 Sep 2006 at 17:00

TBH I have no clue... but would say it's almost impossible to compare a martial artist that punches bare fist and someone that uses gloves... It's just a completely different type of combat.

You are talking about such different styles that it's impossible to judge, which I guess is half the fun of the debate. Personally would expect a martial arts master to beat anyone that fights with gloves if it was a street fight, and that no-one would allow a ring fight between people as different as that as the only way the smaller guy could win would be to use techniques designed to kill/break bones.

D.P. · 4 Sep 2006 at 17:03

The thing is, most of you are comparing Bruce Lee of 30 years ago with moderna day fighters.

This is really not an interesting discussion. I still think lee would do good today but probably wouldn't be amung the very best 4-5 fighters etc.

Compare the best Boxer from 1970 with Lee from 1970 and you would get a veyr definite Lee win. If Bruce Lee was 27 or wahtever now you would be seeing him XMA championships and be regarded as the best fighter.

His attitude and dedication to martical arts is still the greatest of any who have walked since he departed.

The_Dark_Side · 4 Sep 2006 at 17:50

Phnom_Penh said:
No, but that's probably why he developed jkd. As a shot in the dark, Yip Man probably was.

in terms of technique Yip Man most definitely was at the top of tree so to speak, but he was too elderly to be an effective combatant.
William Cheung on the other hand was, IMHO, a more skillful fighter than Lee.

as for JKD, Lee formulated the system after coming to the conclusion that Wing Chun didn't address certain situations and therefore had shortcomings.
my own personal opinion on this matter is that Lee reached this conclusion as a consequence of not completing the syllabus.Lee never made it to the level of Master in Wing Chun.

Mr Nice · 4 Sep 2006 at 17:55

Chuck Liddell would own the pair of them

/runs

The_Dark_Side · 4 Sep 2006 at 17:57

busterboy said:
Give me one instance where they have put a 9 stone fighter in with a heavyweight or even a light heavy and come out on top..

Guy's you have been watching too many movies, This is for real not rehearst with special effects..

when i was 10 stone i knocked out a 16 stone opponent...although there were no rules involved which is where the UFC/Pride series differs.
speaking from experience, the only way a fighter of smaller stature can defeat one much larger is down to his technique.
Lee was first and foremost a Wing Chun practitioner and as such some of the main weapons in his arsenal are finger strikes to the eyes, throat and numerous groin strikes.
unless i'm mistaken these are all prohibited in all televised fight scenarios.
these are techniques the smaller fighter needs to address the considerable strength of a significantly superior fighter, yet the rules in place have taken these away from him...handicapped him if you will.

as for your "it's for real" comment you couldn't be further from the truth, unless the last time you got into trouble when on a night out you just happened to be drinking in a metal octagon, alone, with only one guy there with you and a referee there to stop any undesireable techniques.

The Running Man · 4 Sep 2006 at 17:59

i would have liked to have seen a fight, Jackie Chan Vs Bruce lee both in their prime.. see what styles they would have used and which would have come out on top

Fantom · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:06

Nickg said:
i would have liked to have seen a fight, Jackie Chan Vs Bruce lee both in their prime.. see what styles they would have used and which would have come out on top

Chan is nothing compared with Lee :confused:

The_Dark_Side · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:07

panthro said:
It is. A total joke with people trying to justify their opinions when they cant actually prove anything. Its all speculation. It entertains me to read it though.

isn't this the case with so many hypothetical questions so often asked in here?
granted the fanatical fans on both sides have some dubious foundations to their argument, but not all.

busterboy · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:18

The_Dark_Side said:
isn't this the case with so many hypothetical questions so often asked in here?

Agreed..

The_Dark_Side said:
granted the fanatical fans on both sides have some dubious foundations to their argument

Including you.. :rolleyes:

The_Dark_Side · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:30

busterboy said:
Including you..

such as?

benjo plz. · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:32

The_Dark_Side said:
Lee never made it to the level of Master in Wing Chun.

Nope, don't think he even made senior student, although JDK did address a lot of the pedantics involved in wing chun.

L337 LooX said:
Chan is nothing compared with Lee

he's pretty solid though, he can take quite a beating, just isn't as fast.

The_Dark_Side · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:34

Phnom_Penh said:
Nope, don't think he even made senior student, although JDK did address a lot of the pedantics involved in wing chun.he's pretty solid though, he can take quit a beating, just isn't as fast.

i'd have to disagree and i think if Lee had persisted with the system he would've drawn the same conclusion.

damn ninja editing skills, lol.

axe · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:36

Bruce Lee's first formal, organized bout came as a teenager at his high school in Hong Kong. He was to fight a young British boxer, a reigning two-time boxing champion. Bruce knocked his opponent out with repeated strikes, using the Wing Chun technique jik chung chuy.

We timed him with an electric timer once, and Bruce's quickest movements were around five hundredths of a second (.05sec), his slowest were around eight hundredths (.08sec). This was punching from a relaxed position with his hands down at his sides from a distance between 18-24 inches. Not only was he amazingly quick, but he could read you too. He could pick up on small subtle things that you were getting ready to do and then he'd just shut you down."

BoomAM · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:37

L337 LooX said:
Chan is nothing compared with Lee

Nonscence.
Bruce Lee was glorifyed in death and wasnt that good of a fighter.
He knew a few fighting styles.
Jackie Chan knew shed loads and was a stunt actor as well. Meaning he knew how to more, and could take the pain better.

Bony Maloney · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:42

I don't think that guy would have even got a finger on Bruce Lee, and yes it is true Bruce could fly, and teleport himself.

axe · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:44

BoomAM said:
Nonscence.
Bruce Lee was glorifyed in death and wasnt that good of a fighter.
He knew a few fighting styles.
Jackie Chan knew shed loads and was a stunt actor as well. Meaning he knew how to more, and could take the pain better.

Tai Chi Chuan
Hung Gar
Wing Chun
Jun Fan Gung Fu

then created Jeet Kune Do

i would say that is rather impressive . Could you please tell me what jacki had trained

EDIT - Chans

He does not know formal Kung Fu, but he is well trained in Chinese Northern Pai stage art, which is a form of acrobatic dance in china. But he also delved into other arts such as Judo, Pak Mei, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing.