BT Infinity & FTTx Discussion

[TJM]

Yeh, I'll have to go out and have a walk at lunch to see where the cable is actually routed. I think I've probably got 200m of cabling if it follows the street round, so I'm probably getting about as good as I can to the house.

Figuring out the exact route can be tricky. The obvious route for my cable is about 500m, but I know the actual route as I saw them putting it in and it's closer to 700m.

In addition to using the test socket, I'd suggest using a higher quality RJ11 cable like this one: http://www.tandyonline.co.uk/high-speed-rj11-dsl-cable-2m.html It won't work miracles but can add a few Mbps.

 

[Mr. Peri Peri]

It states in BT's T&C's that if they cannot provide service in your new area then you are free to leave without penalty, you just need to pay a cease charge.

If they can provide a slower service, then they are within their rights to charge you cancellation fees if you do not wish to downgrade.

I wonder if they thought of the implications of IPTV when they put that clause in though. As Mr. Peri Peri said, without FTTC/P they can't provide the service he currently has. Sure you could argue that they can still provide ADSL but he bought phone/broadband/TV as a single package and they can no longer provide that. Forcing him to split those and potentially pay more (e.g. by getting TV from Sky) by locking him into two thirds of the service he signed up for seems unfair to me and I'd definitely take my chances with the ombudsman over it.

Cheers guys, your posts prompted me to read the T&Cs in detail, and then get back in touch with them to quote some specifics.

Also spoke to the Home Move team direct this time rather than the live chat, who confirmed I will not be held to term and can cancel penalty free.

 

[pcfarrar]

I am so sick of BT retail and Openreach! I ordered a home move on the 26th June for our Infinity and phone service. The earliest appointment I could book was the 17th of July! The new address did not have a phone line so I was told I'll have to order ADSL broadband and then upgrade again to FTTC. Really?!

For new addresses without an existing line you always have to do this. I did one at work recently, the upgrade to FTTC was about 7 days after getting ADSL active.

 

[varkanoid]

Hmm, is that an engineer job or do I just get a new faceplate myself? Our current one has Openreach written on it.

I do have a set of old Netgear 200Mbps powerline adapters and a switch upstairs. Nothing else uses the extensions aside from my PC, so I can use the test socket and powerlines. I'll give it a shot and see how I go.

if you are getting 56/16 at the master socket and then only getting 34 and then 22 on Speedtest from your PC I think you should be looking internally rather than externally. You wiring must be shocking. I get 54/18 at the master socket and I get the same from my PC upstairs. I must be about 200m from the cabinet indirectly. This is fed via cat6 that goes from the smart hub then outside, up, back in, through airing cupboard into loft back down again to spare bedroom to an 8 port gig switch then to my PC. I did consider dropping down Infinity 1 but then my upload speed would be reduced quite a bit and I got a discount for 24 months that brings my price down to what Infinity 1 is so didnt bother.

Dont fit a faceplate yourself if you do BT may find this out and they won't touch your installation if you have problems. In any case I dont think this is your problem.

On another note I was talking to a BT Openreach Engineer the other week when he was installing superfast in one of our new offices and under the BT split they have been ordered to remove and replace ALL faceplates which have Openreach on them on every master socket. How they expect Openreach to do this he had no idea and said it was crazy.

 

[gord]

if you are getting 56/16 at the master socket and then only getting 34 and then 22 on Speedtest from your PC I think you should be looking internally rather than externally. You wiring must be shocking. I get 54/18 at the master socket and I get the same from my PC upstairs. I must be about 200m from the cabinet indirectly.

Dont fit a faceplate yourself if you do BT may find this out and they won't touch your installation if you have problems. In any case I dont think this is your problem.

Yeh, I now think my sync speed is about right for my line distance. So it's just my internal extension wiring that is causing the 25% drop, and that is even at the master socket but not using the test, so simply having the extensions enabled is causing the drop. We have 3 extension sockets, of which only 1 is in use for the router. Unfortunately wiring anything from the master to other house locations is a massive pain so I'm stuck with this wiring. I looked today to see if I could remove the other extensions but the cabling and routing seems complex. Just reading up on removing the ring wire and whether that might improve things.

 

[varkanoid]

Removing the bell wire definitely will improve things although the master socket BT fitted when you had Infinity installed should isolate it. My other ethernet routing I did was from the dining room where the master socket/route is to my lounge. I used flat white ethernet cable to hide it round door frames and skirting board. Its visible if you look but less noticeable and the wife was happy with it. If you can route ethernet cable then do it.

 

[ChrisD.]

Dont fit a faceplate yourself if you do BT may find this out and they won't touch your installation if you have problems. In any case I dont think this is your problem.

If it's done properly then BT won't find out, there's nothing wrong with doing it and it's easy as pie with the mk4.

 

[pcfarrar]

Yeh, I now think my sync speed is about right for my line distance. So it's just my internal extension wiring that is causing the 25% drop, and that is even at the master socket but not using the test, so simply having the extensions enabled is causing the drop. We have 3 extension sockets, of which only 1 is in use for the router. Unfortunately wiring anything from the master to other house locations is a massive pain so I'm stuck with this wiring. I looked today to see if I could remove the other extensions but the cabling and routing seems complex. Just reading up on removing the ring wire and whether that might improve things.

Fit a new NTE5C with MK4 VDSL faceplate. I would also fit the extensions with new LJU2/3A sockets.

Also if you try removing the extensions one at a time you might be able to find the problem one.

 

[gord]

Removing the bell wire definitely will improve things although the master socket BT fitted when you had Infinity installed should isolate it. My other ethernet routing I did was from the dining room where the master socket/route is to my lounge. I used flat white ethernet cable to hide it round door frames and skirting board. Its visible if you look but less noticeable and the wife was happy with it. If you can route ethernet cable then do it.

Don't think mine is isolated (see below). We're not on Infinity, no engineer came for our fibre upgraded, it all happened at the cab. Networking the house up just isn't an option .

 

[gord]

Also if you try removing the extensions one at a time you might be able to find the problem one.

This is what I wanted to do, but how do you do that? From my research it appears as if removing the extension cables at the master takes them all out. If I remove the wiring at the extension sockets themselves does that do anything? I'd assume because the wire is still connected to the master that the interference can still be picked up.

 

[CrimsonAvenger]

I am so sick of BT retail and Openreach! I ordered a home move on the 26th June for our Infinity and phone service. The earliest appointment I could book was the 17th of July! The new address did not have a phone line so I was told I'll have to order ADSL broadband and then upgrade again to FTTC. Really?!

The engineer turned up as expected on the 17th and installed the mastersocket indoors. He then said I could leave as all the work could then be completed outside. As I left they were tacking the phone line to outside wall. I was told the broadband/phone will be active from midnight. This has not happened. Every time I phone no one can tell me what the fault is and when it will be resolved.

Not impressed. I phoned up WELL in advance knowing the process will take ages but this is ridiculous. What's more annoying is I know there will be another long delay between upgrading from ADSL back to FTTC.

Does anyone have any email address' for anyone at BT / Openreach who will actually assist?

Recently moved to a new address. No BT phone line. Had to get one installed. I DID NOT have to go ADSL first............. I ordered through Zen Internet.

 

[Swifty55]

I wonder if they thought of the implications of IPTV when they put that clause in though. As Mr. Peri Peri said, without FTTC/P they can't provide the service he currently has. Sure you could argue that they can still provide ADSL but he bought phone/broadband/TV as a single package and they can no longer provide that. Forcing him to split those and potentially pay more (e.g. by getting TV from Sky) by locking him into two thirds of the service he signed up for seems unfair to me and I'd definitely take my chances with the ombudsman over it.

Yeah, I agree. Just have to be smart about what you say to them and you shouldn't have to pay a penny!

 

[Swifty55]

So, fibre installation day and it's been.. a bit underwhelming. Despite years of waiting for fibre, going for 80/20 and being 140m from the cabinet as the crow flies, maybe 180m of cabling if it goes the route I think it does, I'm getting the below stats.



So, my faceplate is stealing 15Mbps, then the extension another 3, and then the cable extender another 8.

1) I thought I'd get much closer to 80/20 at the master socket. Was I just too ambitious?
2) Will a new faceplate stop it from stealing a huge chunk of performance?
3) The 3Mbps drop on the extension line isn't too bad, but the cable in the room is obviously terrible. Is that normal? It didn't seem to be impacting the line as much on ADSL.
4) My actual download speeds are even worse. Despite syncing at 34Mbps wired to my PC, my speedtest.net results are 22/10. The speed test results from the test socket were much better at 56/16. The max I can get out of the test download files here: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/download is about 600KB/s, which isn't much better than my old ADSL.

Any help is much appreciated.

What was your guaranteed speed when signing up?
Looking at the checker, you are well within the range of the High and Low limits. There could be a fault on your line or that your line is simply that impacted due to age, etc.

 

[pcfarrar]

This is what I wanted to do, but how do you do that? From my research it appears as if removing the extension cables at the master takes them all out. If I remove the wiring at the extension sockets themselves does that do anything? I'd assume because the wire is still connected to the master that the interference can still be picked up.

In that case I would try removing the cables at each extension socket. I guess it's not wired in a star topology from the master socket?

 

[varkanoid]

In that case I would try removing the cables at each extension socket. I guess it's not wired in a star topology from the master socket?

the picture shows the old type of master socket (sorry didnt realise it wasnt infinity if it was BT would have replaced the master socket). You need to take the top bit off too as the picture doesnt show how the extensions are wired into the master socket. ie if you have 3 extensions you should also have 3 sets of orange/blue+white/blue connected to the port. IIRC orange is the bell/ring wire. When I had ADSL I just snipped it off.

 

[TJM]

the picture shows the old type of master socket (sorry didnt realise it wasnt infinity if it was BT would have replaced the master socket).

Openreach actually no longer visits properties for FTTC activations - you get the router with microfilter in the post and the engineer does the necessary work at the cabinet. You can request an engineer install but I imagine you'd have to pay for it.

 

[varkanoid]

Openreach actually no longer visits properties for FTTC activations - you get the router with microfilter in the post and the engineer does the necessary work at the cabinet. You can request an engineer install but I imagine you'd have to pay for it.

Oh right interesting you had to have an engineer when I had mine installed although that was years ago

 

[gord]

the picture shows the old type of master socket (sorry didnt realise it wasnt infinity if it was BT would have replaced the master socket). You need to take the top bit off too as the picture doesnt show how the extensions are wired into the master socket. ie if you have 3 extensions you should also have 3 sets of orange/blue+white/blue connected to the port. IIRC orange is the bell/ring wire. When I had ADSL I just snipped it off.

I just removed the orange ring wire from the front face plate part attached to connector 3 and it has made.. no difference. So it's definitely our extension wiring that's causing the issue, and I can see looking further back into the socket that there appears to be 2 extension wires, so one of my 3 extensions is probably daisy chained. Ultimately I think I might need a telephone engineer to just come and sort out disconnecting the unused extensions.

 

[varkanoid]

For best results you needed to snip the orange wire at all sockets, extensions included.

 

[ChrisD.]

What sort of sync speed should I be getting:

vdsl status
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 46632000 bps   US Actual Rate       : 20000000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 46312424 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 21992372 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :        1       US Interleave Depth  :        1
   NE Current Attenuation  :       16 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :        5  dB
   DS actual PSD           :     5. 2 dB    US actual PSD        :     5. 3  dB
   NE CRC Count            :       37       FE CRC Count         :     1254
   NE ES Count             :       27       FE  ES Count         :     1147
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0       Xdsl Link  Times     :        2
   ITU Version[0]          : b5004946       ITU Version[1]       : 544e0000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-06-0D-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :       18 dB    Far SNR Margin       :        5  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004946       CO ITU Version[1]    : 544eb206
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < IFTN >

Most checks suggest 52 minimum, it's not much, but annoying nonetheless. I guess I must be unlucky have have bad crosstalk. I'm 200 m from the cab as the crow flies, but it's a new build area so the line could take some crazy route for all I know.

Two BT engineers came yesterday and they were extremely helpful. Straight away they noticed a hum on the line so went to the cab, no issues there and logged a D side issue. They then went to every DP along the way and redid all of the joins on my line. Hum has gone and slightly better speeds:

vdsl status
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 54669000 bps   US Actual Rate       : 19994000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 54294120 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 20094804 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :        1       US Interleave Depth  :        1
   NE Current Attenuation  :       16 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :        5  dB
   DS actual PSD           :     6. 7 dB    US actual PSD        :     6. 9  dB
   NE CRC Count            :       35       FE CRC Count         :     7212
   NE ES Count             :       11       FE  ES Count         :     6427
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0       Xdsl Link  Times     :        1
   ITU Version[0]          : b5004946       ITU Version[1]       : 544e0000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-06-0D-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :       18 dB    Far SNR Margin       :        6  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004946       CO ITU Version[1]    : 544eb206
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < IFTN >