Caporegime
AJUK said:
i think he may have meant for companies to invest in, as opposed to you reloacting a house there...
bulgaria - romania to join the EU good or bad
- Thread starter jas72
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i think he may have meant for companies to invest in, as opposed to you reloacting a house there...
Caporegime
Visage said:
exactly. what services do we offer than eastern europe would want/need that they are unable to reproduce/copy given 5 years?
apart from PM and construction what else do we have? (capital i guess but...)
Soldato
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i can see tons of dodgy romanian builders and stuff coming over
Soldato
Visage said:
a rolleyes?! oh dear.
What makes you think what i said is 'unfounded speculation'? Was it just because i didn't link to another website saying the same thing? I don't make things up just for fun.
Caporegime
Visage said:
err, what financial services do you propose they will require, that they could not get from anyweher else, or indeed as i say build up over a 5 year period?
Associate
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I remember once seeing a repeat of the tc show Yes minister, it may be almost 30 years old, but he political points they made then, are still just as pointed as now.
There was a debate on the show about the founding of the EU, how nobody in the UK wanted to join, but as the Opposition was against it, then they would have to be for it. There was a wonderful line by Sir Humphrey which went along the lines of (and i paraphrase a bit as i should be doing some proper work and not on here),
"Off course we don't want to be this close to them, off course we don't want ti to work, and thats why we must join, only from within can we bring about its downfall quicker than if we did nothing....."
The EU is expanding, countries who are at the economic top table are seeing more and more countries clamoring around the for an invite, countries who used to be at the bottom of the EU economy are now becoming cautious, they are seeing the benefits that used to get now being diverted into poorer countries.
I have nothing against these people, they are just trying to better themselves like everyone can, if you live in a country where the average wage for skilled position is <£10 a day and for the say job and skills you can earn £40, 000 -£50,0000 per year, then why would you want to stay? These figures are based on polish Doctors i heard on Radio 4 this morning.
The argument defending the open limit is that there are jobs that no-one in britain wants to do, but (again from Radio4 last week) we have student nurses and Phyios and other medical professionals graduationg from university and not able to find a job in this country, why are we still letting people in from Overseas to work these jobs when we have a vasly under employed skilled workforce.
Something like 98% of this years Physio graduates won't find jobs within their field in the next 12 months, 86% of nurses are in the same situation. Its just a little crazy that so much effort is spent on trying to help other EU member counties and future members whilst the labour force here at home is taking the brunt of it all.
/rant off
There was a debate on the show about the founding of the EU, how nobody in the UK wanted to join, but as the Opposition was against it, then they would have to be for it. There was a wonderful line by Sir Humphrey which went along the lines of (and i paraphrase a bit as i should be doing some proper work and not on here),
"Off course we don't want to be this close to them, off course we don't want ti to work, and thats why we must join, only from within can we bring about its downfall quicker than if we did nothing....."
The EU is expanding, countries who are at the economic top table are seeing more and more countries clamoring around the for an invite, countries who used to be at the bottom of the EU economy are now becoming cautious, they are seeing the benefits that used to get now being diverted into poorer countries.
I have nothing against these people, they are just trying to better themselves like everyone can, if you live in a country where the average wage for skilled position is <£10 a day and for the say job and skills you can earn £40, 000 -£50,0000 per year, then why would you want to stay? These figures are based on polish Doctors i heard on Radio 4 this morning.
The argument defending the open limit is that there are jobs that no-one in britain wants to do, but (again from Radio4 last week) we have student nurses and Phyios and other medical professionals graduationg from university and not able to find a job in this country, why are we still letting people in from Overseas to work these jobs when we have a vasly under employed skilled workforce.
Something like 98% of this years Physio graduates won't find jobs within their field in the next 12 months, 86% of nurses are in the same situation. Its just a little crazy that so much effort is spent on trying to help other EU member counties and future members whilst the labour force here at home is taking the brunt of it all.
/rant off
callmeBadger said:
What do you expect if the locals do not possess the basic skills necessary?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/5263812.stm
If the local population can not supply the necessary qualified workforce, then foreign populations must be brought in.
Associate
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Ex-RoNiN said:
I thought i specifically mentioned in my two examples a skilled and abundent local workforce.
BBC said:
well as i'm not talking about school leavers, more graduates form Higher education i'm unsure what relevance this quote holds.
Imigration has been an essential part of British development, in the late 40's and through the 50's this country was dependent on huge numbers of immagrants, but back then, you were let in if you had a skill that was not available here, much like the Australian and Canadian policy that exists today.
Having an open door policy like we do sounds like a great free idea, but when almost no other developed country in the world has this policy, why don't we ask why? surely if this was such a great idea, then everyone would be doing it.
callmeBadger said:
"Everyone" has unemployment figures that are far in excess of the UK's unemployment figures ( see HERE ). Instead of scaremonging that there are no jobs, be glad that the UK is very successful in terms of employment, immigrants or not.
The people that are on the dole for a large amount of time and claiming (loads) of benefit are the types that I pointed out in my previous post. Since they do not partake in society, their jobs must be occupied by foreigners.
There are enough jobs for everyone in this country, even after the Polish hyper-immigration. Having said that, this is completely irrelevant in this topic, as the government has already stated that Romania and Bulgaria will not be given the same freedoms as the previous entrants.
Once the rest of the EU15 grant full access to the new members (I mean the "old" new members,i.e. Cyprus/Slovenia etc.) then the pressure on the UK will ease off a lot. Poland and Czech Republic, for example, have many historic close ties with Germany and therefore are more likely to move there once they are allowed to.
I am surprised and gladdened by the debate on this forum it's far higher brow than I expected with reasoned arguements.
From my side of things you have to balance immigration with emigration. Have a google at how many Brits actually left the UK recently.
EDIT: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1311
I had Polish people working for me and they all rent 1 large house to keep the costs down and live frugally during the year. However, back home most are onto their 2nd or 3rd house purchase and will return to Poland once the rental income improves from their properties.
The are hard working and keen to make enough money to return to their homeland or prosper here in the UK. The benefits in the UK are nothing compared to several european countries but the UK's lack of any form of identity card I'm sure makes the UK and easier target for those wishing to scam benefits.
I'm not sure yet about Bulgaria or Romania I think the UK is right in selective entry for the 1st 3 years at least until some figures regarding the open door policy from the last few years are known.
Sweeping remarks like they are all poor gypos probably aren't valid arguements
From my side of things you have to balance immigration with emigration. Have a google at how many Brits actually left the UK recently.
EDIT: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1311
I had Polish people working for me and they all rent 1 large house to keep the costs down and live frugally during the year. However, back home most are onto their 2nd or 3rd house purchase and will return to Poland once the rental income improves from their properties.
The are hard working and keen to make enough money to return to their homeland or prosper here in the UK. The benefits in the UK are nothing compared to several european countries but the UK's lack of any form of identity card I'm sure makes the UK and easier target for those wishing to scam benefits.
I'm not sure yet about Bulgaria or Romania I think the UK is right in selective entry for the 1st 3 years at least until some figures regarding the open door policy from the last few years are known.
Sweeping remarks like they are all poor gypos probably aren't valid arguements
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This is almost a Speaker's Corner thread. GD won't know what him them 
Will be interesting to see how it pans out, there does need to be some form of limitation put on immigration. Also remember reading about some of the higher up mafia style goings on in Bulgaria. Mafia attacks, stabbings, shootings and the like.
Will be interesting to see how it pans out, there does need to be some form of limitation put on immigration. Also remember reading about some of the higher up mafia style goings on in Bulgaria. Mafia attacks, stabbings, shootings and the like.
Caporegime
Ex-RoNiN said:
Can't supply, or can't supply as cheaply as the bosses would like? If the latter then it kinda undermines the whole principle of a labour market no? I wonder what the government (and their financial backers) would say if there were loads of eastern european senior executives entering the country?
Most of the 600,000 Poles who've settled in the country in the last 2 years are unskilled workers. Kids in Britain don't want to be unskilled workers because Tony's told them all they have to be in the knowledge based economy. London and the south east is already at breaking point, we don't have the room/resources for another 600,000 people in the country
Caporegime
scorza said:
so whats the solution?
reduce our kids ideals and tell them to expect lower pay for the unskilled jobs they are capable of? unless this happens and unless they are willing to do so, then of course employers will be willing to take a harder working employee who will work for the min wages, regardless of their nation of birth.
it makes sense.
Permabanned
I dont want them here 
Ofcourse i do. My parents were imigrants from Germany. More foreigners the better i fit in
Ofcourse i do. My parents were imigrants from Germany. More foreigners the better i fit in