bulgaria - romania to join the EU good or bad

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Nickg said:
what is the cost?

In the early days these countures draw far more funding from the Eu than they put in. That funding comes in no small part from the UK.
There is also the social cost on living standards in the ares that they migrate to as well as the extra strains on local services.
Those are some of the immediate social and financial costs.
 
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I fail to see how this system works!! Please someone explain why the following is not in place.

- England is Ok, wealthy, etc etc, Bulgaria/Romania isnt particularly
- They want to move here, we dont want to move there.

Should there not be first a system where the countries are brought into the eu, on a monetory/trade basis, untill they are able to self sustain at a reasonable rate. Then allow them to be part of a migration program, because maybe enough people coming here, would reflect the amount going there.

Otherwise were just filling up.
 
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VIRII said:
In the early days these countures draw far more funding from the Eu than they put in. That funding comes in no small part from the UK.
There is also the social cost on living standards in the ares that they migrate to as well as the extra strains on local services.
Those are some of the immediate social and financial costs.

i should like to see how much our funding would increase with the entrance of Bulgaria, and Romania would be to the UK, and to the EU in general.

also, if we put a sensible control on immigration, i.e a limit cap, then the other burden you mention would become moot, as the cost would exist whether ROm/Bulg entered or not.
 
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Nickg said:
i should like to see how much our funding would increase with the entrance of Bulgaria, and Romania would be to the UK, and to the EU in general.

also, if we put a sensible control on immigration, i.e a limit cap, then the other burden you mention would become moot, as the cost would exist whether ROm/Bulg entered or not.

There is no question that if handled sensibly it could be awin win in the long run.
I just can't think of any precedents of that occurring.
 
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right, first things first...Bulgaria and Romania got some drawbacks regarding their EU joining but "cultural differences" is NOT one of them. There are already countries like Estonia and Finland which culture-wise, look more awkward. In addition to that, we are talking about countries that are not in any kind of armed conflict, are democracies and have, in fact, been trying hard to prepare themselves for the EU for about 15 years already.

Having said the above, I dont think a free movement of labour(at least not straight away) is a good idea. Its not to do with criminals since I am pretty sure that, if they wanted to, borders are not such an obstacle for them. Bulgaria doesnt worry me as much since they are about 7-8 million and most of the young and prospective people have already succeeded in leaving while the rest may come over for a while, see that its not paved with gold, and go back, but Im not sure about the Romanian 22 million population. Besides, as some of you pointed, the braindrain will be extremely high and their economies would need these people.

Btw, to go a bit back in time, try to remember that Greece at the point of joining EU, for instance, wasnt mint either when it came to economy. Also the EU itself was created by warn-torn countries. Some of you argue that the two countries wouldnt have wanted to join EU if they werent looking for a way to better themselves...hmm maybe...but even without being there, most of the trade of these countries is indeed with the EU.
 
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uk out of the eu and anyone can join for all i care,

EU is a waste of britsh moeny TBH we are the only ones who play by the stupid rules.


There will be mass riots in this county before too long. and in the long term civil war. all its going to take a recession to ignite the tinder box of racial tension.
 
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jas72 said:
I am surprised and gladdened by the debate on this forum it's far higher brow than I expected with reasoned arguements.

From my side of things you have to balance immigration with emigration. Have a google at how many Brits actually left the UK recently.

EDIT: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1311


why do think they are leaving they are sick of the immigrants? the gov does nothing but tax and tax and tax.

jas72 said:
I had Polish people working for me and they all rent 1 large house to keep the costs down and live frugally during the year. However, back home most are onto their 2nd or 3rd house purchase and will return to Poland once the rental income improves from their properties.

LOL, cant you see thats why they can work for bugger all and in doing this they are lowering the national wage average, which a lot of people have tought hard for. Most UK familes don't want to share a whome with strangers. I bet you dont live with 15 other people. If they didn't take these Fully star out swear words jobs then the wage for them would go up.

And they do nothing for the uK economy as like you say all the money goes back home to poland (insert county the leeches come from )
 
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Very Bad.

Due to the influx of literally thousands and thousands of Polish in my area, wages have gone down and work isnt as easy to get as it was.

The Bulgarians and Romanians will totally swamp the country and make things even worse.

Youve gotta look after your own first.
 
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Iraklis F.C. said:
at least greece will have a neighbouring EU state, more trade more tourism more opportunities
Perhaps you lot can suffer with a Sangat style camp right next to your border. Oh and don't forget, Turkey are next after this lot. That'll be nice for your Greeks won't it.
 
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dont forget that for the majority, those that do come over, want to work, are young and dont really need NHS care (being young). This injection of an instant workforce will be a boost to the economy. How? Those 600,000 people need services. Wherever they end up, they will need to buy stuff, use stuff and do stuff. Their presence will create more jobs than they "take". Speaking of which, they also tend to do unskilled jobs. Jobs that few locals will do because it is either, beneath them, or they feel doest pay high enough. The demis of the industrial/production industry is testement to the lack of a local unskilled docile workforce.

So this will apply pressure on locals for job competition. Well, i think that since bosses will hire the most hardworking, less likely to take "sick leave", regardless of nationality, isnt that a good thing for the business?

What you do need to be wary of, is the "professional" immigrant. Those with dubious qualifications coming here and using them, even tho they are not up to UK standard. Those that come here to claim benefits should be equally be chucked out back to where they came from, or their goverment billed for their benefits.

It is time to end this idea of "birthright" to a job, since you're now part of the united states of the european union. That is an unescapable fact, live with it, and adapt, or remain jobless. Competition forces change, improves productivity, drives people to be better. We have been sitting on our arses for too long while the world is overtaking us, time for payback.
 
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frosty03 said:
It is time to end this idea of "birthright" to a job, since you're now part of the united states of the european union. That is an unescapable fact, live with it, and adapt, or remain jobless. Competition forces change, improves productivity, drives people to be better. We have been sitting on our arses for too long while the world is overtaking us, time for payback.
Harsh words, but true. However even I, as an immigrant myself, have to admit that you have some legitimate grievances not so much against the EU, but against your own government: they've been telling you that they want to create a more educated population and turn Britain into a services-based economy, leaving the unskilled jobs to immigrants, but at the same time they've introduced university fees! Seems to me they're trying to have their cake, eat it, and then RMA it to the pie shop.
 
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Their presence will create more jobs than they "take". Speaking of which, they also tend to do unskilled jobs. Jobs that few locals will do because it is either, beneath them, or they feel doest pay high enough. The demis of the industrial/production industry is testement to the lack of a local unskilled docile workforce.

You got it quite right there! Apart from that, I have noticed with some eastern europeans that have been here from recently is that they lack the knowledge for many of the legalities here which means that for lots of stuff, they would have to use middlemen for pretty much everything(accountants, solicitors etc) they try to do while also the parking attendants tend to enjoy having people like that around because they can easily screw up of where to park. :)
 
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Doosht said:
Due to the influx of literally thousands and thousands of Polish in my area, wages have gone down and work isnt as easy to get as it was.
That keeps inflation down and that is a key Govt target ;)
Besides the Govt said ther would be 13,000 immigrants from those member states per year, being over half a million out in 2 years isn't bad is it ....
 
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Dun-dun-duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:

express23aug06.JPG


Should we really trust the opinion of a newspaper that promotes 'reflexology shoes'?
 
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Visage said:
Dun-dun-duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:
Should we really trust the opinion of a newspaper that promotes 'reflexology shoes'?

Perhaps we should look at their record of predicting immigration invasions that were far in excess of Govt promises instead of their opinions on shoes.
I know it usually suits your purposes to "obsfuscate" (thought I'd bring that trendy phrase back to life) reality with "humourous" quips about papers and media that do not share your Guardian flavoured views but lets just stick to facts.
Did they predict a mass influx of people from Poland and the last states that joined?
Were they right?
If they were then should we really discount their opinions, that were right last time, because of some shoes?

:rolleyes:
 
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well, if 600,000 is for ALL eastern Europeans being settled in Britain at that point, thats not extraordinarily high since the immigration from there has been going on from the early 90s(not to mention quite a few that managed to escape the regimes before that). After all, just the Indian originating population in Britain is something like more than a million.
 
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