bulgaria - romania to join the EU good or bad

[Efour]

More subsidies to more poor countries.
More imigrants.
More markets to sell our goods.... What goods. More Financial nonsense?

We are living in the worst times for the EU give it 50 years and it will be super but now its a rat hole.

 

[Usher]

The cheeky girls come from Romania so that should be warning enough

No-one seems to have mentioned the over burdoning of our services, our local hospital is losing 700 jobs & closing some vital departments inc. Cancer wards.

Perhaps its to make way for the influx of foreign doctors ? incidentally TB is rife amongst the Balkkan states & yes it is contagious so I guess it all comes under the master plan.
The original conception of the EU was as trading parners & nothing more but what do we now see ? Britains ( I hesitate to use the prefix 'Great ' )industries -shipbuilding, steelmaking, car making , the list goes on, all in serious decline whilst we buy everything from overseas, mostly from China ! we are even having to buy in coal , gas , oil because our own reserves have been sold off. The EU does nothing for the man in the street except cost him more & given a referendum the the result would be a massive thumbs down

 

[scorza]

so whats the solution?

1) Reduce the benefit burden - force people who can work to work or else don't give them their dole.
2) Tell kids the truth - not everyone has what it takes to be a doctor or a lawyer. Tell them that whatever their potential they won't achieve anything unless they work hard
3) Get rid of the arbitary 50% target of children who go on to higher education.
4) Halt uncontrolled immigration - as well as increasing the benefit burden immigration leads to lower wages, which businesses like, but businesses always think of the short term. Lower wages mask inflation, which in turn over-cooks the economy. Whatever happened to the end of boom and bust?
5) Let the economy develop naturally - maybe then it will be possible to live in this country on an unskilled wage again.

 

[Amps]

Bulgaria And Romania are a bad thing for the EU as far as i know they are no where near the finical criteria of the EU.

All letting Bulgaria and Romania join the EU is going to do is increase economic migrants to the rest of Europe , it will also push up there property prices in Romania and Bulgaria and leave them with less skilled workers.

I have a feeling that you might also find the amount of gypsies/travellers increasing.

It will also increase the drain on the European fund and devalue the Euro.

KEEP THEM OUT TILL THEY MEET ALL THE CRITERIA

 

[The Running Man]

No-one seems to have mentioned the over burdoning of our services, our local hospital is losing 700 jobs & closing some vital departments inc. Cancer wards.

Perhaps its to make way for the influx of foreign doctors ? incidentally TB is rife amongst the Balkkan states & yes it is contagious so I guess it all comes under the master plan.
The original conception of the EU was as trading parners & nothing more but what do we now see ? Britains ( I hesitate to use the prefix 'Great ' )industries -shipbuilding, steelmaking, car making , the list goes on, all in serious decline whilst we buy everything from overseas, mostly from China ! we are even having to buy in coal , gas , oil because our own reserves have been sold off. The EU does nothing for the man in the street except cost him more & given a referendum the the result would be a massive thumbs down

makes no sense. how can closing wards/losing jobs hospitals be for the purpose of bringing more foreign doctors in? i am sure the 2 are infact opposed situations. (i.e cheaper foreign doctors would help ease the burden on the NHS and mean they wouldnt have to spend as much per patient etc...)

also, u seem to be blaming the UK's decline on the EU. this is unfair. our decline is in line with our population and resources available to us. we have an expensive workforce, who are innefficient. put the 2 together, and u are going to have economic problems.

LOOK at america, also in decline in manufacturing. is this anything to do with the EU? nope they just havent been able to keep pace with their better quality/more efficient rivcls (japs) or the cheaper price of chinese goods. exactly the same has happened to us.

the decline has nothing to do with immigration when u compare the UK to the US. the other factors remain constant, as does the prognosis for the economies.

 

[Kroegen]

Well to be honest, we are living in an immigrant society. All of you english are foreigners. Mostly came from my people

 

[Glaucus]

It's def a good thing.
But we need yearly limits on migrants. With a tightened up benefits system. Also a move from foreign people getting houses to english. Ie build an extra 300k in the next few years.

 

[Rosbif]

well i live in slough and it is absolutely rife with poles... i havent really noticed much difference... apart from any scrap of land worth building on is getting apartments put up...

dunno what the strain is like on public services since i dont use any...

id still say dont let them in.. better to not risk the peace with the locals...

 

[scorza]

Well to be honest, we are living in an immigrant society. All of you english are foreigners. Mostly came from my people

Another warning from history about the dangers of uncontrolled immigration. Will we ever learn?

 

[robmiller]

Let them in for the economic benefits and introduce tighter immigration controls like the rest of Europe have. Win-win.

 

[VIRII]

Its an excellent idea - more growing economies for our goods and services.

I fully expect my positivity to be drowned under a flood of 'OMG IMMIGRANTZSSSSSS' posts though....

I'm not convinced that they become "growing economies" creating new markets for our goods and services.
Surely if they were growing economies then their labour wouldn't be flooding places like the UK because they would have jobs over there?
And if so many of their workforce are here then who is over there creating this new demand for the things we export?

Doesn't add up. Sounds lovely though, I wish the world was really like you say it is.

 

[The Running Man]

I'm not convinced that they become "growing economies" creating new markets for our goods and services.
Surely if they were growing economies then their labour wouldn't be flooding places like the UK because they would have jobs over there?
And if so many of their workforce are here then who is over there creating this new demand for the things we export?

Doesn't add up. Sounds lovely though, I wish the world was really like you say it is.

not necessarily. their economy is GROWING it doesnt mean that it is able to provide jobs for everyone in the country just yet. that would surely be an EXPLOSION, not just growth? 9and with it hyperinflation etc too..

so while not necessarily in the short term have they grown enough to facilitate the employment you are seeking, maybe consider the medium to long term, and the impacts that time frame will bring with it?

 

[Usher]

makes no sense. how can closing wards/losing jobs hospitals be for the purpose of bringing more foreign doctors in? i am sure the 2 are infact opposed situations. (i.e cheaper foreign doctors would help ease the burden on the NHS and mean they wouldnt have to spend as much per patient etc...)

.

I think you missed the point as I was being flippant re foreign doctors coming in to replace the mass redundancies
Would they be paid less ? I would have thought that payscales are set & have to be adhered to regardless.

 

[VIRII]

not necessarily. their economy is GROWING it doesnt mean that it is able to provide jobs for everyone in the country just yet. that would surely be an EXPLOSION, not just growth? 9and with it hyperinflation etc too..

so while not necessarily in the short term have they grown enough to facilitate the employment you are seeking, maybe consider the medium to long term, and the impacts that time frame will bring with it?

Of course in the long term there may well be enough growth there for them to become a notable importer. I wonder though what they would import from us?

 

[Von Smallhausen]

We are opening the door to the Mafia

The London crime scene is largely run by gangs from the former Soviet Bloc and Eastern Europe and had been for some time when they came over, swept aside other gangs such as the Yardies and took over lucrative markets such as vice and drugs. They are already here via an open door.

 

[The Running Man]

i questioned this too, above, and the best anyone could come up woith is financial services - which i queirred as to how long it would take for them to replicate the necessary skills to not need us.

but yea looking at a bigger picture, it can increase the scope and depth of the EU market, making it more favourable to import into - knock on effect their growth may necessitate further services being imported from the EU (UK) to allow them to increase infrastructure. its a bit tenous, but still..

also, another more comcrete example, large chains are buying businesses in europe, inc ex soviet states, and become part of the EU may open them up to buyers in the UK looking to expand, especially in the retail/tecnology sector where UK finance can provide investment which isnt necessarily obtyainable in said country.

this fuels the growth of the UK backing firm, providing more jobs (potentially) in the UK, and in other EU countries too. - inc value of company - inc shareholder wealth - benefitting general public holding shares, also investment companies, who can then go on to invest in further startups - which may mean further capital in the UK + further investing, which means more jobs available = favourable to the EU and UK?

 

[Kroegen]

If you dont like them coming here, why not move on to Aussie land?

 

[VIRII]

this fuels the growth of the UK backing firm, providing more jobs (potentially) in the UK, and in other EU countries too. - inc value of company - inc shareholder wealth - benefitting general public holding shares, also investment companies, who can then go on to invest in further startups - which may mean further capital in the UK + further investing, which means more jobs available = favourable to the EU and UK?

This is indeed all possible although greater demand does increase prices in the short term, which is not a good thing if we are talking imports.
The real crux of it all is whether opening up these markets will cost us more than we ever get back from it, is it worth weakening our home position to help boost others.
In the very long term I'd say yes, in the short term I am not so sure and the short term could easily be 40 years.

 

[The Running Man]

what is the cost?

 

[manveruppd]

I remember once seeing a repeat of the tc show Yes minister, it may be almost 30 years old, but he political points they made then, are still just as pointed as now.

I love that series, one of your best exports ever IMHO! If you rewatch them you'll be flabbergasted over just how many things they joked about on it actually came true!

The argument defending the open limit is that there are jobs that no-one in britain wants to do, but (again from Radio4 last week) we have student nurses and Phyios and other medical professionals graduationg from university and not able to find a job in this country, why are we still letting people in from Overseas to work these jobs when we have a vasly under employed skilled workforce.

I may be wrong about this, but I remember reading somewhere that you actually have a huge deficit in nurses in this country! Nobody wants to be one because the pay is quite low relative to the amount of training you need and how hard the work is.