Canadian Grand Prix 2011, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race 7/19

[Deleted member 66701]

Not necessarily true, as he was catching Vettel quickly enough to reach him by the end of the race without the safety car.

Quite.

Button would have closed the gap in those laps the safety car was out anyway - in fact by my reckoning he could have cleared Vettel 4 laps before the end of the race.

 

[dannyjo22]

So does anyone know if Vettel changed engine maps towards the end of the gp for those laps when he reacted to button?

He had him pegged until the mistake and he must have had plenty of fuel to switch to a full on EBD map?

 

[Nexus]

Nobody can know the answer to that.

It's more than likely that he did though as he was setting fast sector times to counter Button. What most likely caused his spin was that he was probably using a lesser engine mapping and only turned the wick up again at the end, he was clearly being quite cautious on the options in comparison to others. Jenson had been going hell for leather and knew how the options were working in the wet as well as having them up to speed. Vettel just overcooked it when he had to suddenly try and fend off Button.

 

[utajoker]

bout time we saw some rocket red again.

 

[sunama]

Thing is racing, not pure entertainment and if they solved the issues like they were going to do in 2013, it's not even needed.

Not going to happen.

I know that you want to see less aero dependence and more dependence on mechanical grip (like the old days), but this is 2011. Things have changed.

It's taken me about 18 months to realise this.

Gone are the days when a top driver (Senna), could go on national TV and say he wants to leave his current team and drive for another team for free. If you did that in 2011, there would be SERIOUS consequences.

Gone are the days when if a top driver (Senna), was unhappy with another driver with on-track antics (Irvine), he could go to the other driver's garage and sort it out with a physical fight.

Gone are the days when if a top driver (Prost), was slower than his team-mate (Mansell), he could ask his team to swap the cars over, in secret, so that he could screw his team-mate over. If you did this in 2011, you would get found out and the FIA would probably come down heavy on you.

Gone are the days when if a top driver (Senna), felt that pole position was on the wrong side of the track, he could legitimately take out his team-mate, if his team-mate got a better start than him. In 2011, you would probably get a ban for doing something intentional like that.

I could go on and on. But like me, you also have to accept that in 2011, F1 is very different to what it was 20 years ago. In 2011, The purity of racing in F1, is no longer the most important factor...entertainment value and viewing figures now appear to be King.

 

[Mr Men]

Gone are the days when if a top driver (Senna), felt that pole position was on the wrong side of the track, he could legitimately take out his team-mate, if his team-mate got a better start than him. In 2011, you would probably get a ban for doing something intentional like that.

Prost was not his team mate when he done that

And who would want to see a return to days like that, and yes he should have been banned for it.

 

[dannyjo22]

Nobody can know the answer to that.

It's more than likely that he did though as he was setting fast sector times to counter Button. What most likely caused his spin was that he was probably using a lesser engine mapping and only turned the wick up again at the end, he was clearly being quite cautious on the options in comparison to others. Jenson had been going hell for leather and knew how the options were working in the wet as well as having them up to speed. Vettel just overcooked it when he had to suddenly try and fend off Button.

Just looking at Kravitz video on bbc, both red bull and mclaren are saying that Button had the pace because he had the heat in the tyre, so the last safety car would have added to vettels woes and given him little chance.

For the first time we saw Vettel having to dig deeper within the car. Not that he should lose any sleep, Button won't take more than 3 wins this year I'd say 3 might be stretching things and no one is anything like consistent enough to string together what Alonso did last year.

60 point lead over Button, who I doubt will finish 2nd in the standings. Almost 100 point lead over Alonso, unless his engine expires for 6 races on the trot this will be over with double the points over 2nd place.

 

[sunama]

If the driver being overtaken is good enough, being skinned by a DRS car is no problem as they should stay within 1 second and DRS them back. If they can't do this, they deserved to be overtaken in the first place.

I like DRS as it provides more drama and shortens the length of time that crap cars hold up good ones.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Dr Who]

Lewis just seems to be going into races too hot headed at the moment and making bad racing decisions.

Lewis never really suffered that when he first joined F1 like so many other drivers did. Schumacher was a nightmare for a while before he became WC.

Lewis is suffering this later on as he has an inferior car (slightly to SV) and as a result frustration is setting in, he is psyching himself out.

He will sort this, every driver goes through it.

 

[sunama]

I agree on Hamilton but at some point he has to use his head if he wants to keep racking up titles. If Button didn't see him or the timing was slightly off Button would always be closing that door. I don't think he's smart but he has to think of the longer game plan sometimes. The race was his for the taking yesterday and yet again he blew it trying to win the race in one instant.

I actually felt (and still, sort of, do), that Hamilton did nothing wrong yesterday.

But one thing which Webber said, certainly makes me think twice about this. In summary, Webber said that it was a long race. A wet race. A race where there would be many incidents. There was no need for Hamilton to take so many risks, so early in the race.

Certainly, the above is something which Hamilton needs to learn...you won't win a race in the opening few laps of a wet race.

 

[Dr Who]

If the driver being overtaken is good enough, being skinned by a DRS car is no problem as they should stay within 1 second and DRS them back. If they can't do this, they deserved to be overtaken in the first place.

I like DRS as it provides more drama and shortens the length of time that crap cars hold up good ones.

Yup what I was saying the last few pages which AH2 has still failed to come up with an answer too.

 

[Glaucus]

Not going to happen.

I know that you want to see less aero dependence and more dependence on mechanical grip (like the old days), but this is 2011. Things have changed

they have and are doing it, higher nose, smaller wings, no winglets between axles, double diffuser.
They finally get to a point where there rules are working well and they panic add a knee jerk reaction and then seemingly give up.

 

[sunama]

Lewis is suffering this later on as he has an inferior car (slightly to SV) and as a result frustration is setting in, he is psyching himself out.

I don't see this as being the case.

In 2009, Hamilton had a dog of the car, in the first half of the season, but he did well to make the most of it.

In yesterday's race, IMO, he had the fastest car on the track. He must've known this when he was catching Button, hand over fist yesterday. In clear air, he probably would've been the fastest car on the track at that point. I don't believe that yesterday's rash attempts at overtaking have anything to do with having a slow car. Basically, Hamilton is impatient and didnt want to hang around. On a dry track, in the dying laps of a race, his do or die attitude is correct. But in the opening laps of a wet race...there is no need to take so many risks, so early on, especially when he knew that he (probably) had the fastest car on the track and was favourite for a win.

 

[sunama]

they have and are doing it, higher nose, smaller wings, no winglets between axles, double diffuser.

Do you honestly believe that by reducing some aero, designers won't make up every bit of aero which they lost (due to rules), by using other clever ideas?

In general, every year, the FIA bring in new rules which reduce aero and designers improve their cars and gain pretty much all the aero back, over a single Winter. This is quite normal and nothing new or radical.

To radically decrease aero and improve mechanical grip (which is what you seem to be suggesting), the FIA need to be radical in their ideas. And this type if radical overhaul (especially with regard to aero), appears to be something which the teams don't want to see happen. The dependence on aero, IMO, is here to stay.

 

[sunama]

For the first time we saw Vettel having to dig deeper within the car.

Indeed. And it is this which saw him push his car over the limit which led to his "off".

I've been saying this all along - try and get ahead of Vettel on lap1. If you can't do that, keep him under pressure. He will crack. RBR no longer have the outright fastest car in race trim and IMO are now vulnerable to getting usurped by Ferrari and McLaren.

In Monaco, Vettel was very lucky to have a red flag when he did. In Canada, he was not so lucky and the full race distance was covered. Vettel needed Button to either get another penalty or for the race distance to be shorter.

Vettel has ridden his luck well so far this year, but I feel that things have already turned. In Monaco, Alonso's Ferrari was the fastest. In Canada, Button's McLaren was the fastest. I do not believe that RBR have the fastest (race) car anymore (Hungary, excepted).

I still believe that Alonso and Hamilton have a good chance of winning the title this year, though Vettel remains outright favourite.

 

[NathanE]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=43930

Why Lauda such a troll?

Why when Hamilton got taken out by Webber in Australia 2010 and Singapore 2010 was there no public outcry. But as soon as Hamilton accidently has the slightest tap on Webber, in the wet, everyone goes into a frenzy and calls for him to be banned?

He also brings up Spa 2008. Which is almost universally known to be a Hamilton win marred by a needless FIA intervention. Is there any others than blame Spa 2008 on Hamilton's reckless driving?!

 

[Mr Men]

Wasn't Lauda that said about Spa, but in general yeah Lewis seems to be hitting a lot of other cars

 

[Duke]

The rumour mill starts up again - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92327

 

[NathanE]

Wasn't Lauda that said about Spa, but in general yeah Lewis seems to be hitting a lot of other cars

But Vettel crashed his team mate and had plenty of bodywork crunching episodes last year (mostly Silverstone last couple laps springs to mind, and also that time he T-boned Jenson at Spa). Nobody called for him to be banned? McLaren made a cheap shot at him in the press by saying something like "it's something we see more in junior formulas". Ultimately, they just accepted them as racing incidents?

 

[dannyjo22]

I still believe that Alonso and Hamilton have a good chance of winning the title this year, though Vettel remains outright favourite.

Not when you put it into perspective. Vettel could sit out the next 6 gp's and I'd still fancy him to be leading the title ahead of the two you mention. Neither could put in enough wins to consistently to take the lead or even finish the gps.

Add vettel into that mix and they will be chipping away 5 or so points per race at the odd race and the next race it will flip flop to another driver taking 5 points out of him.

I honestly don't see Hamilton Button or Alonso winning 4 races this year let alone more. They might win 3 or 4 each but none of them are a nailed on 2nd place challenger.