Canadian Grand Prix 2011, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race 7/19

smr said:
Button's fault for driving on the line, instead of going wide and just opening a barn door for Lewis to get through.
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If I remember correctly, last year MSc did something similar to Barrichello, when he basically pushed Barrichello dangerously close to the wall. Basically, Barrichello had nowhere to go. Thats exactly what I saw happen happen [I could be wrong, but that's how I saw it and I'm sticking to my opinion] - Button squeezed Hami into the wall.

Its not hypocrisy. Its what I call driving fairly.

By all means, prevent the driver behind from overtaking, but to squeeze them into the wall - that's a massive no no. MSc did the same thing to Hamilton earlier on in the race and I think that was harsh but fair. Note, that Hamilton was able to run off the track and rejoin. Had their been a wall and MSc did that Hamilton, Hamilton would've been in the wall with nowhere to go and people would be up in arms.
 
Well :) I consider it Karma for Monaco, in terms of Safety Cars, in Monaco Vettel profited from it, in Montreal he lost out because of it :)

So we're now back on an even keel.
 
Do I really have to draw up youtube clips comparing the two instances?

MSc's was in the dry, Button's wasn't. In a moment of madness, it looked (to everyone, even his wife I'd imagine) that he purposely squeezed Barrichello into the wall, He really yanked the steering wheel right, at what I imagine would have been a 0 - 45 degree angle very very quickly.

This was demonstrated by the car's knee jerk movement towards the wall.

Jenson and Lewis yesterday - the visibility would have played a massive factor the spray that these tyres chuck up into the air is beyond absurd.

It's hard enough using wing mirrors to ascertain where the following driver is at the best of times. But in those conditions - he simply wouldn't have seen Lewis.

Lewis was much quicker coming out of that chicane - why didn't he do Jenson on the outside, he had grippy tyres on and would have mullered him into that first corner. Instead he chose to be a cowboy and shogun himself through a door which was always inevitably not going to be there.

In Lewis' defence, had it been dry conditions he might have seen MSc's line and realised where the racing line actually was - and that - unsurprisingly, just as MSc had taken it, Jenson would to.

If you look at Button's movement he didn't make any knee jerk reactions like MSc did in (hungary?)... You can quite clearly see this from Lewis' onboard cam.
 
I'd love to see how opinions might be different if Button had seen him and therefore hadn't continued pulling to the left.
 
sunama said:
If I remember correctly, last year MSc did something similar to Barrichello, when he basically pushed Barrichello dangerously close to the wall. Basically, Barrichello had nowhere to go. Thats exactly what I saw happen happen [I could be wrong, but that's how I saw it and I'm sticking to my opinion] - Button squeezed Hami into the wall.
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blah blah blah, first of all, MSc's incident with Barry, was in the dry, and secondly Button stayed on the racing line, in fact, according to the FIA who have access to the GPS tracking data for the race.. something that you do not have access to no matter how awesome you think you are.. Button was further to the right at that point on the lap, than either himself on previous laps, or MSc on that lap, had been. So if anything, his 'fault' was leaving Lewis more of a gap than he otherwise would. Looking at the various angles that I've seen, it was quite simply an accident, where Lewis's front tyre, clipped the rear tyre of JB, which caused him to jink left, that clip also pulled on JB's rear end, which made him seem wider than he was, and of course, being so close to the wall, Lewis came off worse.

Of course, all things said, it's kinda pointless arguing with you about this, nothing will change your opinion, just like those saying that 'if it wasnt for the safety cars, Vettel would have been miles down the road', well if it wasnt for the rain, things would have been different too, and if the other guys hadn't started at all, vettel would have won too.. it is, what it is.
 
I'm a Jenson fan and not particularly a Hamilton fan, but tbh Hamilton was at fault for their coming together. Everyone was taking that line, and he should have known that visibility was poor. Jenson looked both sides in his mirrors and couldn't have seen him. It's a cardinal sin to take off/crash into your team mate, but there was nowhere for Hamilton to go. Same as with Webber, he was given space but wanted to get past at any cost - and paid the price. Button and Alonso more 50/50 though Alonso also doesn't know when to give up a place, and paid for it too. Hamilton's driving is electric sometimes, but I've lost count of the amount of errors he's thrown away decent points results with. Just off the top of my head Monza crashing with a few laps left, China staying out when a pitstop would have won him the WDC. He may now "only" have 1 championship but if he's as good as everyone says, surely he should have more?

Vettel, yes he's had luck, yes he's had probably the best car, but that's what it takes most years to become WDC. He's just making the most of what he's got really so far.
 
3dcandy said:
I'm a Jenson fan and not particularly a Hamilton fan, but tbh Hamilton was at fault for their coming together. Everyone was taking that line, and he should have known that visibility was poor. Jenson looked both sides in his mirrors and couldn't have seen him. It's a cardinal sin to take off/crash into your team mate, but there was nowhere for Hamilton to go. Same as with Webber, he was given space but wanted to get past at any cost - and paid the price. Button and Alonso more 50/50 though Alonso also doesn't know when to give up a place, and paid for it too. Hamilton's driving is electric sometimes, but I've lost count of the amount of errors he's thrown away decent points results with. Just off the top of my head Monza crashing with a few laps left, China staying out when a pitstop would have won him the WDC. He may now "only" have 1 championship but if he's as good as everyone says, surely he should have more?

Vettel, yes he's had luck, yes he's had probably the best car, but that's what it takes most years to become WDC. He's just making the most of what he's got really so far.
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Monza, crashing with a few laps left, and Monza crashing barely a few laps in. Remember that stupid mistake against Massa?
 
mmj_uk said:
Hamilton is just frustrated about having to drive the balls of the McLaren and still being 1 second slower than the Red Bulls.

As for Button he's not under the same pressure to win titles, he knows there are 3-4 other drivers on the grid faster than him, had he not fishtailed Alonso yesterday Alonso would've won it. I've just seen an article proclaiming it to the best victory in the history of F1, hardly... he (accidently I accept) took out two of his faster opponents and then lucked it at the end when Vettel ran wide.
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hmm.. we have selective judgement here don't we.

Senna wins at Donington in easier conditions and it's a legendary drive but if Button does it, it means nothing.:confused:

Personally I think it appeared less dramatic, but was actually a lot more dramatic.

In 30 years of watching F1 I don't recall anyone doing that and making it look so easy.

I think Lewis is finding it hard to handle that Jensen is as consistently close to him as he is and is not getting upset about things.
 
Valentino said:
I don't get how people can say DRS is unfair, if Car A gets overtaken by Car B, then Car A if he is actually good enough and wasn't just in the way of a quicker car, can just overtake Car B in the DRS zone on teh next lap. We've not really seen too much flip flopping like that so the quickest car will always be in front. IMO all it does is lessen the skill needed to overtake, but then without it we get no overtaking at all more or less.
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This is my view. All it does is lessen the skill required for an overtake.

Case in point: Webber Vs Schumacher.

Webber tried to overtake off line and couldn't make the move stick, despite being in a faster car. Almost took himself and Button out going in too hot, then as soon as DRS was enabled he zoomed past with stupid speed.

To add insult to injury, he was allowed to use it again in the second zone making any Schumacher come back an impossibility. You can see from the final lap how close it was, and it's my opinion that second DRS zone spoiled it more than the first. It needed a second activation point at the least.
 
lmao
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NathanE said:
http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport/story/51584.html

Hamilton admits it was his fault. Let's see who will knock him now? ;)
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If only his fanboys that kept pointing the finger at button on this forum did the same as their hero and admitted they got it wrong. Top marks Hamilton :)
I'm sure they now admit they called it wrong....

:D

sunama said:
My suspicion is that had Alonso and Hamilton finished, they would have finished ahead of yesterday's winner and kept Vettel off the podium and for the first time this season, you would've seen that the RBR car is not actually that fast any more. .
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God knows where you get that from. Vettel confortably had the pace of the race and lost purely because he pitted later than Button and Button had far more heat in the tyres. Red Bull have said this and so have Mclaren. The timing for going onto slicks just worked perfectly for him.

You can't say Alonso or Hamilton would have won because we don't have a clue what their car would have been like on tyres and when they had put them on. To claim that RB don't have the fastest car anymore is laughable, based on one track. Have you not seen F1 in recent years, the best car is not always out right the fastest at every track. So what about Mclaren then have they gone backwards to ferrari because ferrari had them beat, even by massa in an incident free race.

Just like last year some races Mclaren have the beating of ferrari some times the opposite.

"Red Bull not actually that fast anymore" You have to be kidding me.

If that was a full dry race there is nothing to suggest the Red Bull wouldn't have won, Vettel had one stint where the tyres didn't work, but this was hardly normal circumstances.
 
Lucero said:
If I feel some kind of affinity to the Pryce incident because we have a family connection, thanks very much. :)
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I can't wait to hear this one, but I suspect I won't because it's far too stupid and tenuous to be referred to in an 'I feel affinity to this person because...' statement. What was he, your girlfriend's mum's second cousin's drinking buddy or something?

You are of course welcome to state that you don't think it was funny, just as I am free to state that I think it was without being called an idiot and special, the hallmark of someone with a dubious temperament that can't stand to be questioned. However, you rolling your eyes at another poster that also thought it was funny, was where this all started. Perhaps you should consider not rolling your eyes at people's valid (and correct) opinions next time you start getting overly sensitive about someone your brother's second wife's uncle's dad once saw racing at Silverstone.
 
Robbie G said:
I can't wait to hear this one, but I suspect I won't because it's far too stupid and tenuous to be referred to in an 'I feel affinity to this person because...' statement. What was he, your girlfriend's mum's second cousin's drinking buddy or something?

You are of course welcome to state that you don't think it was funny, just as I am free to state that I think it was without being called an idiot and special, the hallmark of someone with a dubious temperament that can't stand to be questioned. However, you rolling your eyes at another poster that also thought it was funny, was where this all started. Perhaps you should consider not rolling your eyes at people's valid (and correct) opinions next time you start getting overly sensitive about someone your brother's second wife's uncle's dad once saw racing at Silverstone.
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Why you mad bro?
 
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