Canadian Grand Prix 2011, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race 7/19

Borrish said:
Exactly, which is why there's no need to try such a move on the first corner in the wet. These kind of moves seem to have become acceptable because it's hard to overtake in F1 but every single time you do it you're risking taking yourself off as well as the driver you're overtaking. I don't see why you'd try that on the first lap when to be honest he could really do with just finishing the race, especially when he's been penalised in the last race for exactly the same thing.

He's got a lot of talent as a driver but he lacks patience. I don't think the Senna approach to racing really works in modern F1 and the marshals certainly aren't going to allow it.
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So your advice is to settle for position on lap 1?

You cant say people should be calm at the beginning of a race. Thats the best time to make a move. Everyone is close, you gain so much more. If he had waited 5 laps he could have been 5 times further back from the lead. This whole 'holding your position' mentality is retarded. The only person I can realy remember doing that effectively was Prost, and he was shown up by the 'impatient and careless overtakes' of Senna.

I'd much rather watch people try and fail than not try at all.
 
Robbie G said:
I was simply illustrating the infantile nature of your replies, sorry I had to spell it out to you. You know someone's struggling for a decent argument, when that kind of tripe is all they can muster :rolleyes:.

It was painfully obvious that the bloke wasn't going to get run over in that situation, to all but the 'woe is me, back of the hand to the forehead' crowd such as yourself. Why on earth are you referring back to an incident that happened more than 30 years ago under completely different conditions? You seem to feel some kind of affinity or link to the Pryce incident just because you watched it on YouTube or something.
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I never started an argument. I merely stated that I didn't think the situation was funny. Am I allowed to voice that opinion or does your Lordship require permission? It's hardly an infantile thing to comment on. It could have been a very serious incident, even under safety car conditions, an F1 car at the top end of 2nd gear would seriously injur you, even fatally.

To wade in with LOLYOUCRYBABY for expressing concern actually makes you out to be a complete idiot. Sorry if I had to spell it out for you.

We're fortunate that we haven't had a fatal accident in F1 in many years and long may that continue, but it could have easily happened on Sunday.

I can refer to any incident I like in F1. There are many where marshalls have been injured or killed even under similar circumstances.

If I feel some kind of affinity to the Pryce incident because we have a family connection, thanks very much. :)
 
ps3ud0 said:
Is it me or has Hamilton seemingly reached the peak of his racing skills? Ignoring his poor attitude and looking back over his career he just seemed a far better driver at the start of his F1 career then he does now since winning his championship. I guess its hard to get into F1, but harder to stay at the top of it, so the pressure hes under is immense...

I assumed once he had that first championship he would mature and improve his racecraft, but lately he seems more of a liability when things dont go his way and is quite quick to blame anything but himself (though he does drive for McLaren). Its quite telling that my default reaction to him trying to pass is now more 'will he cause a crash?' rather than 'what a gutsy move'. Hell hes more Sato than Kobayashi looking at his recent performances this season - its all quite embarrassing...

Perhaps some will say its harder to see that improvement since it was already a very very good driver - I still think hes more of a racer than a driver and that his driving intelligence is poor, but F1, as a spectacle, needs him. I just wish he was able to use more of his talent in the right way on track and perhaps also get more of a backbone off it, when it seems decisions are made for him or when events dont unfold his way (loved his Monaco interview :p)...

I still think Button has more class than him, he just isnt ultimately as fast as him but I think they are just as decisive as each other.

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Hamilton is just frustrated about having to drive the balls of the McLaren and still being 1 second slower than the Red Bulls.

As for Button he's not under the same pressure to win titles, he knows there are 3-4 other drivers on the grid faster than him, had he not fishtailed Alonso yesterday Alonso would've won it. I've just seen an article proclaiming it to the best victory in the history of F1, hardly... he (accidently I accept) took out two of his faster opponents and then lucked it at the end when Vettel ran wide.
 
mmj_uk said:
As for Button he's not under the same pressure to win titles, he knows there are 3-4 other drivers on the grid faster than him, had he not fishtailed Alonso yesterday Alonso would've won it. I've just seen an article proclaiming it to the best victory in the history of F1, hardly... he (accidently I accept) took out two of his faster opponents and then lucked it at the end when Vettel ran wide.
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:confused:
You could say that stuff for every f1 race, it was an amazing drive, altime best I don't know. But it certainly was a drive and a half.
 
Agree, Vettel hates pressure. He hates pressure in poor conditions even more. It wasn Buttons to have and there was pretty much nothing Vettel could have done about it.
 
Duke said:
Pushing a competitor hard enough to force them into a mistake isn't luck. He would have driven around him any way.
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No chance there weren't enough laps left and plus Vettel would've been about 40 seconds down the road if they didn't keep bring out the SC whenever a puddle appeared.

It was a good win but more luck than skill.
 
So its 'luck' that Button pushed Vettel into a mistake, but not 'luck' that the only reason Vettel was still in P1 is he had 2 free pit stops under safety car?

Button went from last to first entirely under his own driving.
 
Had to watch this race again, so just watched the hightlights. I had goosebumps from lap 60 until the end. Just awesome the way Jenson hounded everyone and picked them off :D
 
Tbh, Vettel is a pretty boring race driver. I find him most entertaining during Qually sessions, but that's it. I can't think of a drive where he's made me think "I've got to re-watch that drive from him"...

All I think of when it comes to Vettel during a race is someone who gets a decent start, drives off into the sunset, leaves everyone else behind and coasts to victory, all in dry, sunny weather. (not to say he hasn't won during wet races of course)... It's just the image that springs to mind of him imo.

And imo, that isn't racing

Yet he seems to be regarded as some kind of exceptional talent for it.

It's the essence of lolwut.

Jenson yesterday showed Vettel what a true racer looks like.
 
smr said:
All I think of when it comes to Vettel during a race is someone who gets a decent start, drives off into the sunset, leaves everyone else behind and coasts to victory, all in dry, sunny weather. (not to say he hasn't won during wet races of course)... It's just the image that springs to mind of him imo.
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His most spectacular drive in the wet was Monza in the Toro Rosso, where he stuck it on pole, got away well, drove off into the sunset and coasted to victory.

There is no doubt that Vettel is a very fast driver. However, he hasn't proved himself to be a racer. This isn't because he cant, its more that hes never bene in a situation where he has had to prove it. He could do with a few starts from the back of the grid to show us what hes got.
 
Avoided all media for 24hrs... just watched the race. Awesome. Still wouldn't mind seeing Vettel get a couple of 0 pointers to even things out.
 
utajoker said:
im sure people will find something wrong.
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the problem with all these media stories is that you don't know whether that's the driver speaking or his management company. It's difficult to judge really - i think in essence it bodes better for Lewis to say that he was 100 percent at fault, which sounds like a PR statement imo.
 
Skeeter said:
So your advice is to settle for position on lap 1?
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Hamilton is my favourite driver, simply because at present, along with Kobayashi, he is the most aggressive driver.

However, even I agree with what Webber said, in that this is a wet race. Its a long race. You need to hang back a little and not go for every 50/50 chance on such a wet track.

On a dry track, I would agree that Hamilton must go for every overtaking opportunity, however on a soaking wet track...it isn't worth making the do-or-die overtakes, so early on in the race. Hamilton was basically trying to win the race in the opening laps of the race.

Another thing to consider is that Hamilton was obviously one of, if not the fastest driver on the track at the time. He was comfortably faster than Button (closing a massive gap within the space of a single chicane). With this in mind, you can wait a few corners and take the slower car in front of you, on a long straight. Button also has to take some blame for what he did.

In summary: on a dry track, go for it. On a wet track, hold back a little in the opening laps, before unleashing all your speed on your opponents.
 
sunama said:
Hamilton is my favourite driver, simply because at present, along with Kobayashi, he is the most aggressive driver.

However, even I agree with what Webber said, in that this is a wet race. Its a long race. You need to hang back a little and not go for every 50/50 chance on such a wet track.

On a dry track, I would agree that Hamilton must go for every overtaking opportunity, however on a soaking wet track...it isn't worth making the do-or-die overtakes, so early on in the race. Hamilton was basically trying to win the race in the opening laps of the race.

Another thing to consider is that Hamilton was obviously one of, if not the fastest driver on the track at the time. He was comfortably faster than Button (closing a massive gap within the space of a single chicane). With this in mind, you can wait a few corners and take the slower car in front of you, on a long straight. Button also has to take some blame for what he did.

In summary: on a dry track, go for it. On a wet track, hold back a little in the opening laps, before unleashing all your speed on your opponents.
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Button's fault for driving on the line, instead of going wide and just opening a barn door for Lewis to get through. It's quite funny reading your comment, because on the one hand, you say that you like aggressive drivers the most, yet, if Button had yielded to Lewis, as you claim to think would have been the most sensible thing for Jenson to do - then wouldn't that have been a non aggressive style of driving from Jenson? (which you have already stated you don't like)...

With that said, you've basically made a comment of sheer hypocricy and bias towards you're beloved Lewis Hamilton - we all know you love the man and would stick up for him no matter what, but to suggest that that was even 1 percent Jenson's fault is ridiculous. There's no way Jenson would have known where Hamilton was, it's as simple as that.

Lewis may have been quicker than Jenson during those couple of laps 6-8 iirc but he certainly wasn't smarter. Jenson knew that pushing that hard so early on in those conditions was simply retarded. Jenson is more intelligent and again dished evidence of this out in bucket loads yesterday.
 
smr said:
Yet he [Vettel] seems to be regarded as some kind of exceptional talent for it.
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Vettel is a HUGE talent. He has exceptional speed and is probably the best time trialer in F1. I do rate Hamilton as the fastest driver in F1, though.

RBR have basically built a car to suit Vettel's ability. A car which can allow him to use his speed in qualifying and get himself on pole in every race. Then manage his race pace to the best of his abilities, from the front, while other drivers behind him are having to go through overtakes, crashes, penalties, etc.

Whether RBR have managed to do this by design or by fluke...I have no idea.

McLaren and Ferrari need to try and get in front of Vettel on the first lap. If they can, Vettel will get stuck behind them (he can't overtake, even with DRS, on equal tyres) and won't be allowed to open up any gaps and stay out of trouble.

My suspicion is that had Alonso and Hamilton finished, they would have finished ahead of yesterday's winner and kept Vettel off the podium and for the first time this season, you would've seen that the RBR car is not actually that fast any more. The problem is that Vettel keeps getting lucky. In Monaco, he was saved by the red flag and in Canada, he was saved by having Hamilton and Alonso crash out. Both could've finished ahead of him and kept him off the podium.

This season could yet be a vintage season, providing Alonso and Hamilton get their act together.
 
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