Indeed, it's always been there but we have way more team radio and onscreen graphics now showing it. If you took these away again, it would be how people think it should be again.
Canadian Grand Prix 2015, Montréal - Race 7/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Indeed, it's always been there but we have way more team radio and onscreen graphics now showing it. If you took these away again, it would be how people think it should be again.
Caporegime
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- 18 Oct 2002
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I have no idea why people are banging on about new team this and can't compete straight away Mclaren haven't been away from the sport (ever? honestly don't remember the entire history of the sport). Honda spent HUGE on the 2009 car, it was the class of the field for the first half of the year and meh for the second half. Most of the team that built that engine weren't a part of the team by the start of the year. Merc took over a team with a car that sucked for half the year, with most of the staff gone. They had to build up factories, hire hundreds/thousands of people and build a fresh car with a small budget that increased year on year.
Every team in 2014 was in the situation of established team building a car around a new engine AND new aero/chassi regulations. This year Mclaren were an established team building a car around a new engine, no new regulations. They had a smaller job than most teams had last year. There is zero excuse.
RBR have issues but last year in preseason their issue was not enough cooling and over aggressive chassis. By Australia last year they had increased cooling and fixed most of the problems with the car. This year it doesn't matter what RBR do , the pistons and other parts that RBR can't change or effect are what is failing and it's effecting TR just as badly.
I suspect that IF that Honda had real performance and was only overheating due to 'aggressive packaging' they'd have opened that thing up hugely to get real performance out of that thing. I believe that engine simply doesn't have much performance nor reliability. They rushed the engineering which 99/100 times will result in a freaking disaster.
As for Alonso's utter BS about choosing Mclaren for the long game and a chance to win WDC's again rather than stick at Ferrari... lol. THat would hold more weight if the big three teams didn't all sort out their driver situations behind Alonso's back leaving him with entirely zero choice in where he was going. Ferrari got bored with Alonso's crap and got Vettel, RBR got Kvyat, Merc wanted to stay with Hamilton and the only other big wage team was Mclaren. When he finally joined it was because Ferrari had forced him out, he was left with Mclaren and their completely BS all year about how and when they'd be competitive has at every stage been proven inaccurate and rubbish.
The PR speak we get from Button/Alonso outside of the car and the frustrated words we get inside the car or right after a race before they've had time to cool down are completely different words to this PR crap. Amateurs is what Alonso said during the race, not difficult period for a top team but a joke of a team and he wasn't wrong.
Every team in 2014 was in the situation of established team building a car around a new engine AND new aero/chassi regulations. This year Mclaren were an established team building a car around a new engine, no new regulations. They had a smaller job than most teams had last year. There is zero excuse.
RBR have issues but last year in preseason their issue was not enough cooling and over aggressive chassis. By Australia last year they had increased cooling and fixed most of the problems with the car. This year it doesn't matter what RBR do , the pistons and other parts that RBR can't change or effect are what is failing and it's effecting TR just as badly.
I suspect that IF that Honda had real performance and was only overheating due to 'aggressive packaging' they'd have opened that thing up hugely to get real performance out of that thing. I believe that engine simply doesn't have much performance nor reliability. They rushed the engineering which 99/100 times will result in a freaking disaster.
As for Alonso's utter BS about choosing Mclaren for the long game and a chance to win WDC's again rather than stick at Ferrari... lol. THat would hold more weight if the big three teams didn't all sort out their driver situations behind Alonso's back leaving him with entirely zero choice in where he was going. Ferrari got bored with Alonso's crap and got Vettel, RBR got Kvyat, Merc wanted to stay with Hamilton and the only other big wage team was Mclaren. When he finally joined it was because Ferrari had forced him out, he was left with Mclaren and their completely BS all year about how and when they'd be competitive has at every stage been proven inaccurate and rubbish.
The PR speak we get from Button/Alonso outside of the car and the frustrated words we get inside the car or right after a race before they've had time to cool down are completely different words to this PR crap. Amateurs is what Alonso said during the race, not difficult period for a top team but a joke of a team and he wasn't wrong.
Soldato
Yeah, watched it all unedited on iplayer last night, very uneventful and boring race. Only thing that happened was Kimi spinning.
Regarding McLaren, you know you're in a bad team when Manor Marussia have beaten you. It's really shocking how McLaren have gone from being right at the top of F1 to the very bottom. What on earth is going on. And Alonso denying that he's in any way disappointed with his move to McLaren, if that isn't flat out lying then I don't know what is. Can Ron Dennis be replaced? If so, perhaps he should be.
Not too worried about Honda as the teams yoyo so much. I mean look at Redbull now lol, remember when Ferrari dominated, remember when MC was getting 9ths and 10th places in the Mercedes? Remember when Honda were winning everything? It all comes back around.
Soldato
Not entirely a true perspective, the power unit can affect the whole of the car because if it is down on power, torque, or the delivery is all wrong then the rest of the car has to compensate. So what we are seeing is a chassis that is probably quite capable, according to the drivers, but looks rubbish because they have to balance out the package to make it quick enough. What I find strange is that Ron's comments at the start of the season were that the power outputs he'd seen from the unit were phenomenal so I think the problem is with the engine recovery side having to be turned down because of unreliability.
Soldato
Agreed, that national anthem was horrendous! A warbly high toned mess!
I don't think the McLaren guys reaction was too bad though, it seemed more like a jokey comment than anything else.
The team can't go out there and give anything but good PR, so it'd either be that, or silence!
Honda do need to speak up soon though.
Soldato
The annoying thing about F1 and motorsport in general is that you're only as good as your car. What other sport relies on anything other than your sheer talent and determination to get you to the winning line? With other sports, the playing field is always even. With F1, if you're a great driver but in a slower car, that's like giving tiger woods a table tennis bat to tee off with, he would never have a chance of beating anyone. Obviously that would never happen. But in golf and other sports, they do all actually get given the same high quality gear they need to play well.
If you really wanted to find out who is the best driver in Formula 1, then they would all be given the same car, same engine.
If you really wanted to find out who is the best driver in Formula 1, then they would all be given the same car, same engine.
Yep. People confuse "not knowing fuel and tyre saving was happening" with "fuel and tyre saving didn't happen".
Soldato
A poor driver can blame his tools, maybe, but good drivers, such as Alonso and Button, can also raise their game if the car is good enough. The past is littered with mediocre drivers who, in a very good car, have under achieved.
I feel sorry for the whole team because I know they have been working their nuts off to try and get a good car for their drivers and this weekend must be so demoralising for them all.
Soldato
Like team orders
It would be a lot better without radio and let drivers drive, manage fuel and tyres, but I doubt it will ever return to that.
LH comment that it was a great race sounded a bit thin. It was a procession. Not his fault, just all seems a bit sad and bad for the sport IMO
Soldato
Man of Honour
If Alonso plays his cards right, he'll graduate to Manor next season.
Like team orders
Team orders were only banned in F1 from 2002 to 2010.
Soldato
Yes, there are poor drivers who wouldn't make the best of a great car. But my point is that there's not a cat in hell's chance of Alonso or Button having any hope of getting near the podium, let alone on it, no matter how much they raise their game, no matter how good their racecraft is, no matter how determined they are, as long as their car is substandard. And they of course are not poor drivers.
Soldato
I guess that's what you sign up for when you enter a series like F1 (or any other motor sport where teams have the flexibility to develop cars/engines). I'm not saying it's great/ideal, but it's basically been like this since the beginning.
It would be quite interesting to see the F1 drivers compete in a series where the cars were nigh on identical....
Like team orders
It would be a lot better without radio and let drivers drive, manage fuel and tyres, but I doubt it will ever return to that.
LH comment that it was a great race sounded a bit thin. It was a procession. Not his fault, just all seems a bit sad and bad for the sport IMO
From his perspective it probably was a great race, for most of it he was only about 1.5s ahead of Rosberg and he likes a close race, got to lap his old team at the 1/3rd mark and had all sorts of fun with a couple of super models. A decent week out in many ways.
Soldato
You have to judge them for what they can do with the tools at their disposal in the same teams, look at Jenson vs Hamilton - Hamilton almost always had the edge in Qualifying but Jenson got more points against him in equal machinery over three years.
Massa against Alonso - Massa quite often was able to match Alonso in Qually trim but Alonso almost always had the upper hand at race craft.
Then you can judge drivers on their ability to overtake, read situations, brake, concentration (I've heard Merc insiders say that Rosberg has had a tendancy to "switch off" or drift off during a Grand Prix for instance), call strategy decisions etc. etc.
It would be interesting to see exactly how they'd compete in completely identical cars for a whole season but it would obviously never happen, and then you would still never have identical cars anyway as the drivers tailor and set them up to how they prefer the balance.
Soldato
Nope I just can't handle it anymore, will remove you from the "list" when Button is a reserve driver.
Soldato
No, it would still be identical cars. Tailoring them to their needs is fine, as long as the car and engine are identical to begin with. Everyone still has the same chance of winning. But drivers having a car which has a weaker engine to another is a different thing completely.
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