Soldato
Canon 5D MKIII or Nikon D800
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Soldato
Soldato
Clearly, I guess that's a benefit of not being on the right side of the bell curve.
He's no different to you or most of the posters on here. After all before you got a 70-200 2.8 mk2 and proceeded to tell a "dedicated photography forum" the Mk1 2.8 was "a waste" despite it being a must have lens in the bag in many professional photographers for years.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/canon-70-200-mk2.327569/
You then proceeded to give you informed run down of each 70-200 despite never having used any.
Why did you get the 24-70 mk2 over the mk1? Was that about the art of photography or just buying what reviews and not hands on experience told you was the better lens?
Let's not pick at one man for being into his gear. Loads of people here will happy strive for the best gear available to them even if they could achieve results with cheaper options. Even if I don't agree with his views sometimes I admire the research he puts into his posts. Is it wrong that he wants to have the best tools available to him when just about everyone else is doing that anyway.
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Soldato
Doesn't really matter what you buy when looking at these cameras though as both take very nice photos. It's not like one of them is vastly better than the other so just buy the system that offers you the glass you need. I've shot with more Nikon cameras than canon yet I still fancy the canon lens lineup more than nikon as they do more exotic primes whilst Nikon do probably the best uwa ever made. I've always fancied a 135L as I love the compression effect it gives and the bokeh, whilst being one of the sharpest lenses canon make. Does it justify me moving over to canon though from what I have now? Not really, just GAS 
Man of Honour
This is why gear talk is bad.
It's only bad if it upsets you. It doesn't upset me because I am happy with what choice I made at the time.
Same as every section really. Gamers in consoles would show you all the time why the 360 dual platform games where better than Ps3 games and no one much cared as the forum was primarily 360 gamers.
Now the PS4 looks to have more detailed graphics it no longer matters it all about the gameplay, excepy Ryse which looks great but has the shallowest gameplay
Same on here, primarily Canon shooters and I'm sure if Canon eventually get their finger out with sensors and become no1 all of a sudden dynamic range would become important again for those canon shooters.
I guess it depends where you are at gear wise, I'm at the limits of my body and at a cross roads of where to go, have been for a while so reading the differences helps me.
Man of Honour
Oh, I don't mean bad for me or anything, I mean bad as in the above heated debates is what usually arises. You'd expect that from DPF/TP etc really not here, not these days anyway.
Gear talk is fine if we understand both boats and discuss respectfully
Gear talk is fine if we understand both boats and discuss respectfully
Associate
I love these threads, I really don't understand why everyone takes gear recommendations so.... personally.
Nikon have better sensors. Full stop. Crop marginally better, full frame noticeably. It's just a fact. It doesn't make Canon sensors any worse than they are, they're just not the best.
If I was looking to move to full frame, I'd be giving the D800 a lot of thought. I don't buy the "lens investment" hurdle either- I buy top-drawer lenses, so I'd be able to shift them with little loss of investment.
Nikon have better sensors. Full stop. Crop marginally better, full frame noticeably. It's just a fact. It doesn't make Canon sensors any worse than they are, they're just not the best.
If I was looking to move to full frame, I'd be giving the D800 a lot of thought. I don't buy the "lens investment" hurdle either- I buy top-drawer lenses, so I'd be able to shift them with little loss of investment.
Great gear isn't going to make you take great pictures, thats primarily about utilising the light and composition. If you're not professional, the bodies will both deliver great results, so I would look at which lenses you will want and then get the best bang-for-buck system for your budget regardless of brand.
It's all personal preference; after using both systems I found that I prefer Nikon files by far, they just take my post processing style better. I also don't have a massive amount of cash to spend and for my budget I felt that Nikon offer the most modern and affordable lens selection. Of course its taken me a lot of money and practice to come to this conclusion, its something you can't just pick up from looking at Flickr and reading gear forums.
I've recently sold my Canon 5D2 and FF frame lenses and gone back to a 2nd hand Nikon D7000 (amazing camera for the price now) with 35mm 1.8.
I prefer Canon ergonomics but Nikon RAW files and also Nikon's cheaper more modern prime lens selection. I don't really shoot anything that requires super fast settings changes so ergonomics arent really that important when compared to the end result.
I definitely got sucked into reading too much gear talk and spent a lot of money switching to Canon full frame kit when really I should have stuck with the D7000. I can get a lot more out of one now that when I last owned because I've improved so much as a photographer over the past year or so.
It's all personal preference; after using both systems I found that I prefer Nikon files by far, they just take my post processing style better. I also don't have a massive amount of cash to spend and for my budget I felt that Nikon offer the most modern and affordable lens selection. Of course its taken me a lot of money and practice to come to this conclusion, its something you can't just pick up from looking at Flickr and reading gear forums.
I've recently sold my Canon 5D2 and FF frame lenses and gone back to a 2nd hand Nikon D7000 (amazing camera for the price now) with 35mm 1.8.
I prefer Canon ergonomics but Nikon RAW files and also Nikon's cheaper more modern prime lens selection. I don't really shoot anything that requires super fast settings changes so ergonomics arent really that important when compared to the end result.
I definitely got sucked into reading too much gear talk and spent a lot of money switching to Canon full frame kit when really I should have stuck with the D7000. I can get a lot more out of one now that when I last owned because I've improved so much as a photographer over the past year or so.
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You can drive yourself round the bend reading up on things 
Buy what suits you and your plans, budget wise. Money no object get the absolute best (and buy me a Leica M9 monocrom ) otherwise look at what does specifically what you need the best.
After reading this thread late last night (and sighing, again) I decided to tot up all my gear on WEX if I had to buy it again. Safe to say I'm not moving brands as I have WAY too much invested in it, without taking into account bags, filters, tripods, etc
Buy what suits you and your plans, budget wise. Money no object get the absolute best (and buy me a Leica M9 monocrom ) otherwise look at what does specifically what you need the best.After reading this thread late last night (and sighing, again) I decided to tot up all my gear on WEX if I had to buy it again. Safe to say I'm not moving brands as I have WAY too much invested in it, without taking into account bags, filters, tripods, etc
Soldato
Did you use LiveView a lot on the 5D2? That is an area that really lets down the D800 apparently.
I want to move on from my 1Ds2 and 7D, I just want better high ISO performance really. I also fancy a change so have been considering the D800 or even leaving full frame and going for more compact system. I'll probably just keep what I have though, as by the time I make my mind up the light will be getting better and I'll be happier again
If the Sony A7's were a quicker handling unit with decent AF and had launched with fast 35mm and 85mm lenses I'd most likely be using them now.
I want to move on from my 1Ds2 and 7D, I just want better high ISO performance really. I also fancy a change so have been considering the D800 or even leaving full frame and going for more compact system. I'll probably just keep what I have though, as by the time I make my mind up the light will be getting better and I'll be happier again
If the Sony A7's were a quicker handling unit with decent AF and had launched with fast 35mm and 85mm lenses I'd most likely be using them now.
OK I better update this thread on what I decided, and in the end I got the... Nikon D800E
Firstly can I thank everyone for their feedback and a big thanks An Exception who took time to email me sample photo's of stuff I was looking for.. although in the forum he may come across as favoring Nikon but in the conversations we had he was very fair to both.
Anyway i'll explain my decision.. I was lucky enough to be able to play with both Camera's and they were both really good and both offered what I considered to be an upgrade to the 5D MKII. I think in image quality the Nikon is better purely down to the extra MP's however I wasn't going to let that be the deciding factor.. the canon was better at Video however after reflection I only used that feature on the 5DII a couple of times. The AF on the Canon is apparently better but I couldn't tell however the 6FPS was definitely an advantage and the 4 FPS did concern me as that's pretty much what the 5D MKII is. I liked the feel of the 5D MKIII it sat comfortably in the hand, the D800E felt bulkier. Their were controls on both that I found awkward so they cancelled each other out.
One of my major considerations was I wanted to keep my 70-200 2.8L II or get the Nikon equivalent but I expected to loose a fortune on it and my other lens and on that basis I would have kept with Canon.
To my surprise though the Lenses keep their value very well, and there was discounts available on buying a lens with a Nikon and also cash back on them to! The shop gave me prices for my gear and I calculated the difference between buying the 5D MKIII and keeping my present lenses or changing to Nikon with equivalent lenses.. to my surprise it worked out cheaper to change to Nikon and get new lenses! it was only then I made my final decision.
I picked up the D800E, 70-200mm AF-S Nikkor f2.8G ED VR II, 24-120mm f4 G AF-S ED VR (which I wanted as a walkabout) and a 105mm f2.8 G AF-S VR IF ED macro.. I also got thrown in a Grip which apparently will address my FPS concerns.. I still need to get a couple of extra lenses but will pick them up on Friday/Saturday after I've looked into it more.
I hope I've made a good choice, I'm sure there's isn't a wrong choice and tbh I'm hoping the change will be a good thing for me and re-light the fire for photography which at the end of the day is what I wanted.. Tech sheets don't make interesting photo's so I need to get out making the camera work!
All I need to do now is learn how to use the Nikon system and try to remember Lightroom/Photoshop
I look forward to taking part in this part of the forum again !
Firstly can I thank everyone for their feedback and a big thanks An Exception who took time to email me sample photo's of stuff I was looking for.. although in the forum he may come across as favoring Nikon but in the conversations we had he was very fair to both.
Anyway i'll explain my decision.. I was lucky enough to be able to play with both Camera's and they were both really good and both offered what I considered to be an upgrade to the 5D MKII. I think in image quality the Nikon is better purely down to the extra MP's however I wasn't going to let that be the deciding factor.. the canon was better at Video however after reflection I only used that feature on the 5DII a couple of times. The AF on the Canon is apparently better but I couldn't tell however the 6FPS was definitely an advantage and the 4 FPS did concern me as that's pretty much what the 5D MKII is. I liked the feel of the 5D MKIII it sat comfortably in the hand, the D800E felt bulkier. Their were controls on both that I found awkward so they cancelled each other out.
One of my major considerations was I wanted to keep my 70-200 2.8L II or get the Nikon equivalent but I expected to loose a fortune on it and my other lens and on that basis I would have kept with Canon.
To my surprise though the Lenses keep their value very well, and there was discounts available on buying a lens with a Nikon and also cash back on them to! The shop gave me prices for my gear and I calculated the difference between buying the 5D MKIII and keeping my present lenses or changing to Nikon with equivalent lenses.. to my surprise it worked out cheaper to change to Nikon and get new lenses! it was only then I made my final decision.
I picked up the D800E, 70-200mm AF-S Nikkor f2.8G ED VR II, 24-120mm f4 G AF-S ED VR (which I wanted as a walkabout) and a 105mm f2.8 G AF-S VR IF ED macro.. I also got thrown in a Grip which apparently will address my FPS concerns.. I still need to get a couple of extra lenses but will pick them up on Friday/Saturday after I've looked into it more.
I hope I've made a good choice, I'm sure there's isn't a wrong choice and tbh I'm hoping the change will be a good thing for me and re-light the fire for photography which at the end of the day is what I wanted.. Tech sheets don't make interesting photo's so I need to get out making the camera work!
All I need to do now is learn how to use the Nikon system and try to remember Lightroom/Photoshop
I look forward to taking part in this part of the forum again !
Caporegime
Soldato
Oh, I don't mean bad for me or anything, I mean bad as in the above heated debates is what usually arises. You'd expect that from DPF/TP etc really not here, not these days anyway.
Gear talk is fine if we understand both boats and discuss respectfully
mrk unfortunately it seems that isn't likely to happen. There are allot of buffoons around that have spent allot of money on camera/lenses. Despite barely able to take a decent picture, they accuse and blame others for things they are guilty of themselves.
Personally I enjoy a good talk about gear simply because I'm curious of just about everything photography related. However said buffoons can't help becoming overly emotional about their camera's and they look to shut down such discussions by acting up like a child not getting it's own way.
Caporegime
No, I like gear talk but I like personal experiences.
How it feels.
How it is an extension of your arm.
How it fits into your workflow.
How the little features that affects your work.
How some features that bugs you or could be better.
Personal experiences.
I don't want to hear charts, graphs and stuff like that. I can read stuff like that any time and I know where they are. There is no point repeating what someone else has said. There is also no point arguing about numbers either so what does pointing to a graph proves? It has a better number, its like trying to argue 4 is a bigger number than 5. It's not, so why bother? I don't want to talk about numbers, I like to see how it translate into the work.
How it feels.
How it is an extension of your arm.
How it fits into your workflow.
How the little features that affects your work.
How some features that bugs you or could be better.
Personal experiences.
I don't want to hear charts, graphs and stuff like that. I can read stuff like that any time and I know where they are. There is no point repeating what someone else has said. There is also no point arguing about numbers either so what does pointing to a graph proves? It has a better number, its like trying to argue 4 is a bigger number than 5. It's not, so why bother? I don't want to talk about numbers, I like to see how it translate into the work.
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Soldato
That's what I'm waiting on as well.
Soldato
The short answer is don't take part in conversations you don't have an interest in. Find one you are interested in. This forum isn't here to only talk about what you are interested in. I don't head over to HTML, Graphics & Programming and tell them to only talk about graphics, and how they make us feel. Take what you like, leave the rest.
Caporegime
Soldato
What.. you do head over to HTML, Graphics & Programming and tell them to only talk about graphics, and how they make us feel.. hence your first reply? 
I think the emphasise on 'feeling' explains why you always seem to be emotionally charged about this stuff. Socratic debate and emotions don't tend to mix well. You need to at least be partly detached to remain objective. And yes emotion should factor in to debate, but it shouldn't be governed by it. Lot's of poor choices are entirely emotional.
I think the emphasise on 'feeling' explains why you always seem to be emotionally charged about this stuff. Socratic debate and emotions don't tend to mix well. You need to at least be partly detached to remain objective. And yes emotion should factor in to debate, but it shouldn't be governed by it. Lot's of poor choices are entirely emotional.
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