car stolen. security recommendations for next car

HC1 said:
I've had my wrists slapped by an admin for my "legal" opinion/view but he/she was very polite/subtle about it so I'm not going to fuel this debate/discussion. However, in response to the above quote I have to say that is just your opinion and not the mantra that everyone would aspire to or agree with. A vehicle to some people can be as important/loved as a pet, partner, or even a child, so there is no way you can quantify a cars' worth to someone or advise that person how far to go in order to stop it being stolen off their property. Calling 999 these days just to report a stolen car or a car theft in progress will not guarantee you a rapid response rozzer visit within the 2 minutes it takes to steal a car.

These are the neutral words of a car owner and a law abiding citizen who works hard for his money and values his possessions. I won't/can't engage in "legal" debates/discussions.
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I'm still convinced you're someone's alt account, it's the only logical explanation as to the ridiculous views you hold, either that or you're completely unhinged. If you really believe that some people can love a material possession (which in 99.9% of the time can be replaced LFL) as much as a human being then those people can only be described as complete idiots. People can't be replaced.

Also in regards to your previous comment around "At least have a go/fight for your property and see what they're made of", what if you find out the thieves are made out of have little empathy towards your life and will stop at nothing to either maim or kill you in order to not get caught? Acting a hard man on the internet and saying you would put yourself in harms way over a replaceable one to two tonne piece of metal isn't impressive, it's just downright stupid.
 
HC1 said:
However, in response to the above quote I have to say that is just your opinion and not the mantra that everyone would aspire to or agree with.[/B]
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It isn't my opinion. I've quoted CPS guidance, the actual law from the statute books, case law and recent judgements where all of the previous were followed.

For the avoidance of any doubt: It is a FACT, not an opinion, that you cannot legally pick up a baseball bat from the comfort and safety of your home, exit your home (remaining on your property or not) and kill someone who may or may not be stealing your car.
 
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DRZ said:
It isn't my opinion. I've quoted CPS guidance, the actual law from the statute books, case law and recent judgements where all of the previous were followed.

For the avoidance of any doubt: It is a FACT, not an opinion, that you cannot legally pick up a baseball bat from the comfort and safety of your home, exit your home (remaining on your property or not) and kill someone who may or may not be stealing your car.
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Please stop cranking up the intensity and severity in your replies. First you add knife stabbing to a few broken bones off a bat and now you mention killing someone. For the record, in the sad event that I am put into this situation with a car thief I would have no desire to kill him/her. A non lethal object of my choice (a bat in this instance) would initially be shown as a deterrent to hopefully make the robber scarper. If I had to actually use it I wouldn't be aiming at the head. I would only want to break bones (perhaps an arm, knee/leg, shoulder, hip etc) and when the robber was disabled and under my control I would then call 999. I would accept the criminal charges for that if a judge thought I deserved it but I would definitely get the media involved if I was prosecuted/charged with assault/GBH. End of story. I've said my bit.
 
DRZ said:
The problem with the first attempt is that they only need to get as far as "I armed myself for fear of being attacked" before you fail the test. It is NOT LEGAL to arm yourself in self-defence, save for heat-of-the-moment stuff which isn't immediately "legal" but is a valid defence if you successfully argue that to the Police/CPS/Jury/Judge. There is a recent(ish) case where a burglar broke into a house, the 17yo living there stabbed the burglar, killing him. He was found not guilty of murder but was found guilty of manslaughter and the judge imposed a lengthy sentence anyway as he simply did not believe the defendant had picked up the knife in the way he said he had - ie he failed the heat-of-the-moment test... That is in a relatively clear case of a real and imminent threat with someone in your house. The CPS guidance etc is abundantly clear that these circumstances DO NOT APPLY outside of your house, even if it is on your property. Getting into a situation where you're swinging a bat at/stabbing a person in your garden/driveway is going to cause you way more trouble than a car is ever worth.
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Got a link?
 
DRZ said:
It isn't my opinion. I've quoted CPS guidance, the actual law from the statute books, case law and recent judgements where all of the previous were followed.

For the avoidance of any doubt: It is a FACT, not an opinion, that you cannot legally pick up a baseball bat from the comfort and safety of your home, exit your home (remaining on your property or not) and kill someone who may or may not be stealing your car.
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a good reason to keep pigs.. somewhere to dispose of the criminal
 
Trifid said:
The police appear to be rather good at investigations when they want to. Theft doesn't meet that criteria but a missing scumbag would.

Maybe this is a better option.
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sad, but true ...
other than 1 email with a crime reference number i've heard nothing from them about my stolen car... heck .. its only worth £25k ... who cares
 
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Trifid said:
The police appear to be rather good at investigations when they want to. Theft doesn't meet that criteria but a missing scumbag would.

Maybe this is a better option.
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But it seems like a tree falling in the woods scenario. Surely robbers don't tell people where they are going. If no one knows, were they ever there :P
 
magyosha said:
sad, but true ...
other than 1 email with a crime reference number i've heard nothing from them about my stolen car... heck .. its only worth £25k ... who cares
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Unless they stumble upon it being used, parked up somewhere or in a chop shop there's realistically not a lot that can be done, the best chance would have been immediately after the theft by flooding the area while it's still on the move and hopefully still on the original plates.
 
HC1 said:
Please stop cranking up the intensity and severity in your replies. First you add knife stabbing to a few broken bones off a bat and now you mention killing someone. For the record, in the sad event that I am put into this situation with a car thief I would have no desire to kill him/her. A non lethal object of my choice (a bat in this instance) would initially be shown as a deterrent to hopefully make the robber scarper.
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This is why the law in this country has such a perverse outcome. If you have to tackle a criminal committing a crime on your property it's always better to be visibly armed to deter them from attacking you. The Police would never go on duty without their asp (telescopic truncheon), CS gas spray and often a tazer gun. They don't go around unarmed because if they have to arrest a violent criminal they need to be able to use proportionate force and defend themselves. If someone is committing an indictable offence (like aggravated car theft - with use of weapons/violence or after breaking into someone's home for the keys and threatening them) then you do have the right to perform a "citizen's arrest" on them. The problem is you cannot arm yourself to do it (unless you can see that they are obviously armed - even then it's a grey area in law and would probably result in you having to go through a trial if you subsequently injured them).

The sick thing is that this moral cowardice on the part of the "Justice System" puts the professional criminal in the driving seat (no pun intended). The Police and CPS are basically using the force of the law to protect car thieves and burglars while they commit crimes against respectable working people with impunity. In more sensible countries people have the right to defend themselves on their property with legally owned weapons. After all, you don't know if those two masked burglars who break into your house at 4 AM are carrying knives, or not, and are just after your car keys and wallet or if they are also high on meth and would be happy to knife you and rape your wife/daughter too.

HC1 said:
If I had to actually use it I wouldn't be aiming at the head. I would only want to break bones (perhaps an arm, knee/leg, shoulder, hip etc) and when the robber was disabled and under my control I would then call 999. I would accept the criminal charges for that if a judge thought I deserved it but I would definitely get the media involved if I was prosecuted/charged with assault/GBH.
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The problem is that the criminal charges you would face would carry a much longer prison sentence than those the professional car thief would get (and if they are under 18 their criminal record will be wiped clean when they turn 18). Of course, few people talk about how car insurance premiums in areas with lots of car thefts shoot up so the car thieves are basically robbing every motorist who lives in that area, instead, they assume the car will be replaced and life will go on just as before. The result of our rather pathetic rights to self/property defence in this country can be seen in a newspaper article from yesterday:

...In one incident, which happened at 4am in the morning, follows a spate of similar crimes across the north of England. Police believe criminals are targeting homes with PVC doors, melting the locks to gain entry to the property. Taira Abdul-Khaliq, 41, who owns the car targeted, said police had been unable to find any evidence at the scene due to the burnt out locks.

She said: "I was so angry, it's unbelievable. I work in a local school and there's not many women who drive high-powered cars so lots of people know who I am. We were advised by police that if burglars break in, they'll come and wake you up for car keys and they might hurt you. So every night, we leave the keys on the stairs so they don't come and threaten us. And that's exactly what they did, they searched our coats, stole our wallets and then started coming upstairs."... Article
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Outdoor alarms are getting really good now OP
So you can have a motion sensor or two that completely ignores any wildlife or cats etc, but as soon as a person walks through it triggers sirens on the house and your phone, you also get a snapshot of whoever triggered it. Really easy to manage too, you can arm/disarm from your phone, a key fob, a keypad or automatically via a schedule. Properly good stuff. We use it on loads of farms to stop tractor theft and we get zero false alarms.

CCTV is a waste of time without an alarm imo.
 
I'd say that is a slightly different scenario being on a public street, but it does depend on the theives to a certain degree. I've plenty of footage from our sites of people scarpering when the sirens are sounding and light flashing etc.
 
a good car theif could make good money helping advise how to protect cars me thinks.
My plans so far once indurance cough up.

2 x security cameras on house with motion detected spotlights. they do have sirens however the neighbours would not appreciate any false alarms. not much good at prevention nor a deterant really as hoodies prevent identification. so hope lighting them up might put them off just a little bit.

ghost 2 or similar immobiliser. seems essential although concerned they can be bypassed easily by a pro.
or
pandora elite. not read anything yet saying easy to bypass but being told support is lacking if needed.

a tracker or 2 - ScorpionTrack S5 PLUS seems one of the best. and also a basic tracker like trutrak just on the battery for them to find easily.

a kill switch. lots of cheap £25 kill switchs on amazon with remotes. wired to fuel pump, or something crucial to start the car. wonder if cutting power to auto handbrake once its activated is an option or do these auto handbrakes self disable on drive movement even if power is cut. thought about kill switch to kill all power hence stopping keyless entry but this also kills power to anything else needed. unsure

last resort is a lift up bollard on the drive behind the car . rental house so not ideal digging holes though.

just need to do as much as I can to prevent these lovely people being able to just jump in and start the car to drive away.
wonder if having 2 different systems of immobilisers fitted could confuse them enough to get it left alone.
 
magyosha said:
a good car theif could make good money helping advise how to protect cars me thinks.
My plans so far once indurance cough up.

2 x security cameras on house with motion detected spotlights. they do have sirens however the neighbours would not appreciate any false alarms. not much good at prevention nor a deterant really as hoodies prevent identification. so hope lighting them up might put them off just a little bit.

ghost 2 or similar immobiliser. seems essential although concerned they can be bypassed easily by a pro.
or
pandora elite. not read anything yet saying easy to bypass but being told support is lacking if needed.

a tracker or 2 - ScorpionTrack S5 PLUS seems one of the best. and also a basic tracker like trutrak just on the battery for them to find easily.

a kill switch. lots of cheap £25 kill switchs on amazon with remotes. wired to fuel pump, or something crucial to start the car. wonder if cutting power to auto handbrake once its activated is an option or do these auto handbrakes self disable on drive movement even if power is cut. thought about kill switch to kill all power hence stopping keyless entry but this also kills power to anything else needed. unsure

last resort is a lift up bollard on the drive behind the car . rental house so not ideal digging holes though.

just need to do as much as I can to prevent these lovely people being able to just jump in and start the car to drive away.
wonder if having 2 different systems of immobilisers fitted could confuse them enough to get it left alone.
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Where in Redditch are you?
I’m Wirehill, behind the Hospital, and we get no trouble.
 
SDK^ said:
Where in Redditch are you?
I’m Wirehill, behind the Hospital, and we get no trouble.
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You are still at risk in that area…

CKB from Northfield/South West Birmingham are hammering Redditch and Bromsgrove at the moment. Any performance car are targets for the CKB or models victim to keyless like the OP. It’s really hard to police as well. They change the plates before the car is even taken and then drive wrong way down dual carriage ways putting members of public at serious risk.

The cars are nearly always dumped in housing estates in Brum. Worth spamming Facebook etc if you are victim.
 
I'm in wirehill behind the hospital. join the wirehill residents FB group. my car in batsford cls and another in ettingly close both stolen within 10 minutes of each other on 1st September at 3:40am
 
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