car stolen. security recommendations for next car

I respect your opinion but I'm not the type of man to belittle other men for actions/comments I personally find a bit limp/pathetic so I hope your approach to car crime works for you if you're ever unlucky enough to be targeted. In your way of thinking I suppose I'll have to admit to being a bit crazy.

I guess you take your chances but here's a story of a world champion boxer chasing down robbers:


The first thing you're taught in any reasonable martial art or self-defence class is to avoid fighting at all costs, life isn't like the films.

Having said that, it would be nice to have a sling shot or something, shoot the ****s from distance :) you'd get done for it but still. Cross bows are legal, firing them at someone's head probably isn't though. Perhaps you could take a tyre out?
 
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I'd confront them too if i caught someone in the act of stealing my vehicle. Not saying i'd actually fight with them but i think i'd be screaming at them at the top of my voice for them to **** off. Would phone the police 1st though.

Good man. At least have a go/fight for your property and see what they're made of rather than shout like a scared woman from a window saying "go away" which gives no incentive at all for them to stop what they're doing. I wonder what those type of men/husbands/fathers would do in a home intruder situation where their wives and kids might be in danger from thieves/nutters. Would they just say take all the replaceable valuables and ask please don't hurt my family and hope the robbers were decent people (duh) ?
 
I remember walking into my son's bedroom once in our old house and it was about 11pm at night. I was about to tell him to get to sleep as it was late. He turned to me and asked "Daddy why is there a man shining a torch in our car?"
Looked out window...
Confirmed...
"I don't know son. Don't worry about it. Shut your curtain and go to sleep, I'll sort it out."

Since it looked like a single, opportunistic *****, I went down and out the back via the kitchen where I just so happened to have a load of tools out from trying to fix a radiator valve. I picked up a massive, heavy steel pipe wrench thing and went out to the car loudly to scare them off. Got to the car and they had gone. No damage to anything.
I can't explain why I did that. Yes they could have had a knife etc. I truly believe the majority of thieves are not violent people and would actually prefer to avoid any possible physical confrontations. I think catching 1 or 2 thieves in the act and shouting loudly and making a load of noise, 99% of the time will cause them to instantly stop and run.

When you check the Ring camera and you see an entire gang turned up to steal your car though, they can frankly have the key.

We only have one keyless entry car and with that, it has an option where if you double click the keyfob, it deadlocks the car and arms it all so that the next time you open the car, it has to be via an actual physical button press of the fob, rather than proximity based keyless entry. I know this still may be able to be signal hacked by storing the signal by capturing an actual button press in real time, but then they would only have access to inside the car. You'd still need the key in close proximity presumably to start it. I think it massively reduces the risk. With this, we don't have to worry about how close the key is to the door in the house either or leave it in a protective pouch thingy.
 
Good man. At least have a go/fight for your property and see what they're made of rather than shout like a scared woman from a window saying "go away" which gives no incentive at all for them to stop what they're doing. I wonder what those type of men/husbands/fathers would do in a home intruder situation where their wives and kids might be in danger from thieves/nutters. Would they just say take all the replaceable valuables and ask please don't hurt my family and hope the robbers were decent people (duh) ?

He said he'd shout, same as I would. Not run out with a baseball bat. He'd also call the police first, as would I. Seems like you're agreeing with me after all.

Someone entering your house and actively threatening you/your family is a different situation so to that I say "nice strawman" and suggest you return to your creche.
 

Chasing is when YOU become the criminal/attacker and face criminal charges. I'm not suggesting being a hero but I would never surrender easily to someone on my property who was trying to take something or hurt me.
 
With knife crime as it is and the Police force decline, UK thieves feel invincible.
You see videos of people taking power tools to locks in London. Most blatant ever... sparks flying. Noisy AF. Various people stood around filming but won't step in, in fear of being stabbed. Sad state of affairs really. :(
 
Good man. At least have a go/fight for your property and see what they're made of rather than shout like a scared woman from a window saying "go away" which gives no incentive at all for them to stop what they're doing. I wonder what those type of men/husbands/fathers would do in a home intruder situation where their wives and kids might be in danger from thieves/nutters. Would they just say take all the replaceable valuables and ask please don't hurt my family and hope the robbers were decent people (duh) ?
Please stop posting.
 
Chasing is when YOU become the criminal/attacker and face criminal charges.

How about you stop posting incorrect nonsense like the above until you get a clue?

If you see someone on your driveway, pick up a baseball bat inside your home, step outside your house onto your driveway and then hit someone with it you are 100% committing a criminal offence. What that might be depends on how much damage you do to whoever you hit. Likely assault/battery at minimum, most probably GBH given its a baseball bat but given our firmly established legal principle of the eggshell rule, you could easily be sent down for manslaughter if you happened to kill them. You don't have to chase them for it to not be OK. You're choosing to arm yourself and go to them.

There is case law where people have seen intruders on CCTV and instead of calling the Police etc they've killed them and as a result have been arrested for murder (and convicted of manslaughter). Is it really worth it for a car?
 
When it recently happened to me I simply looked out of the window and locked eyes with one of the scrotes who then immediately sprinted down my driveway.

My partner was already on the phone to Police and they arrived 10 minutes later.

I didn’t go downstairs as my partner begged me not too, instead I stood between her and my daughters room as what else could I do, simply no winners realistically.

Even if you get the better of them, they know where you live at the end of the day and would no doubt retaliate when you are least expecting it.

It was 4 of them, thankfully they decided it wasn’t worth the aggro after being spotted.

CCTV really is unhelpful after the event as they are covered head to toe, but must make some think twice as if someone goes to the effort of CCTV odds are it’s not an easy in and out.

4 of them walking down to my house.



Same group (Long story, definitely same 4) in someone’s house not far from our area few weeks prior with a large screwdriver held as he sheepishly makes his way through the home holding the screw driver with intent as some sort of defence if needed, quite alarming to watch.




Annoyingly as we spoke with Police they was familiar with this group, they even came back to our estate 2 days later brazenly walking around and managed to get a Merc and Golf R.
 
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I don't think this does anything these days. Everyone and their dog has CCTV and it is easily defeated by a hoody and a mask. Last week a (probably) thief on a bike hid from a siren by jumping onto my driveway to hide against a hedge, he went past 2 CCTV cameras and my doorbell. None of the cameras captured a decent image of the person at night. Fortunately he turned around and disappeared as I became aware of his presence. One suggestion I was given was to install a gate, which might be good for securing my car (high theft risk) but it is too easy to step onto my property from next door.

Ultimately this country hasn't resourced any of the justice system appropriately to deal with the actual threats we face.
 
People entering houses for car keys, as they are still equipped with tools to burgle which are also weapons.

Surely give it a ridiculous sentence rather than a slap on the wrist which would hopefully deter the majority of opportunists.
 
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People entering houses for car keys, as they are still equipped with tools to burgle which are also weapons.

Surely give it a ridiculous sentence rather than a slap on the wrist which would hopefully deter the majority of opportunists.
Harsh punishments won't work as deterrents whilst people are confident they won't get caught in the first place, which they all know is extremely unlikely.
 
Harsh punishments won't work as deterrents whilst people are confident they won't get caught in the first place, which they all know is extremely unlikely.

True.

It’s very much cat and mouse unfortunately, not enough resources to manage it.

Annoyingly they sped off the estate and the Police didn’t manage to catch up with them by the time they jumped in and turned around to go pursue.
 
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How about you stop posting incorrect nonsense like the above until you get a clue?

If you see someone on your driveway, pick up a baseball bat inside your home, step outside your house onto your driveway and then hit someone with it you are 100% committing a criminal offence. What that might be depends on how much damage you do to whoever you hit. Likely assault/battery at minimum, most probably GBH given its a baseball bat but given our firmly established legal principle of the eggshell rule, you could easily be sent down for manslaughter if you happened to kill them. You don't have to chase them for it to not be OK. You're choosing to arm yourself and go to them.

There is case law where people have seen intruders on CCTV and instead of calling the Police etc they've killed them and as a result have been arrested for murder (and convicted of manslaughter). Is it really worth it for a car?


With respect, my understanding of this law now might be a bit outdated but I am willing to learn about changes if you know more current information? The last time I researched this situation was about 10 years ago and I was led to believe homeowners are entitled to protect themselves and their property/valuables using reasonable force within the boundaries of their homes and "reasonable force" is subjective to the threat level they feel they are faced with. This law was not just focused on "inside" properties. It extended to the boundaries of homes and only became a criminal problem for homeowners if they went over their own boundaries pursuing an intruder/thief and assaulted the perp whilst he/she was trying to escape. Please do correct me if I'm wrong. I like to learn and I don't claim to know it all. Things always change over time and I think this discussion is very relevant to this topic. If members only want to talk about alarm systems, steering locks, and bollards, I'll happily withdraw from this conversation and say no more.
 
The reasonableness test is basically one of who started it and if the response was proportional.

From the case law:
A man who is attacked or believes that he is about to be attacked may use such force as is both necessary and reasonable in order to defend himself. If that is what he does then he acts lawfully.

It follows that a man who starts the violence, the aggressor, cannot rely upon self-defence to render his actions lawful. Of course during a fight a man will not only strike blows, but will defend himself by warding off blows from his opponent, but if he started the fight, if he volunteered for it, such actions are not lawful, they are unlawful acts of violence.

Leaving the relative safety of your house having taken the time to think and arm yourself falls well short of meeting the test as described above. In UK law there is no defence whatsoever for arming yourself in self-defence save for picking up a nearby object in the heat of the moment. Even then, you're very likely to face trial should harm come to the burglar as a result.

It might be more reasonable to run outside at them unarmed from a legal defence point of view but it is almost certainly a very stupid thing to do in reality.
 
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Furthermore:

Section 76 (8A) of the 2008 Act explains the meaning of a 'householder case'.

Householders are only permitted to rely on the heightened defence for householders if:

  1. They are using force to defend themselves or others (see (8A)(a)). They cannot seek to rely on the defence if they were acting for another purpose, such as protecting their property, although the law on the use of reasonable force will continue to apply in these circumstances.
  2. They are in or partly in a building or part of a building (e.g a flat) that is a dwelling (i.e. a place of residence) or is forces accommodation (see (8A)(b)). For these purposes, the definition of a 'building' includes vehicles or vessels (see (8F)), so that people who live in caravans or houseboats can benefit from the heightened protection. The reference to 'forces accommodation' acknowledges the fact that military personnel may spend lengthy periods away from home in service living accommodation such as barracks. The term 'in or partly in a building' is used to protect householders who might be confronted by an intruder on the threshold of their home, climbing in through a window perhaps. But householder cannot rely on the heightened defence if the confrontation occurred wholly outside the building, for example in the garden. The Government considered that the immediacy of the threat posed by an intruder is greatest when he is entering or has entered somebody's home and the heightened defence is only available to householders in those cases (see MOJ Circular No. 2013/ 02).

You're wrong and, if you think steaming down your driveway with a baseball bat is a good idea, then as I suggested earlier: You're crazy.
 
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Leaving the relative safety of your house having taken the time to think and arm yourself falls well short of meeting the test as described above. In UK law there is no defence whatsoever for arming yourself in self-defence save for picking up a nearby object in the heat of the moment.

Thanks for confirming what I already know. Nothing in law has changed clearly. A nearby object, placed there on purpose or normally/innocently is open to interpretation as to why it was there. I'd love to get deep into this convo with you but the OP only wants to chat about car alarms and bollards etc so perhaps you can start a new topic on this subject that I can be open and honest with you about without me getting mod/admin warnings for candid off topic responses ???
 
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