So he is by your own admission not good enough now...
Carabao Cup - Semi Final ** Spoilers ** [7/8/28/29 January 2020]
- Thread starter Cosimo
- Start date
Caporegime
He is inconsistent I would say. LVG play was terrible to watch as was Jose and they even won things. The good under Ole has been fantastic whilst the bad has been terrible. I can see what he is planning and you have great potential in the young academy players he has but everyone demands results instantly which I guess is understandable at a club like United but you are going to end up like a Chelsea buying Mercs and going through managers every 5 minutes.
Guardiola and Klopp are on their own level currently and who else is available that could match them? Not really anyone. I would see Poch as a bit of a side step if anything. The reality is it is going to be at least 2 to 3 more years till we are any close to being a contending side again.
Caporegime
No one is expecting miracles but most people also can't see what Ole is trying to have the team do. We generally have done well against sides willing to attack us because we have a pacy attack that can counter and we have a couple of good finishers up there. Beyond that its hard to see any real progress. Fred and McTominay are currently vital to the midfield and without one of them we are literally utter **** but that doesn't excuse the fact that we have no method to our madness. When you watch Liverpool attack you can see what they are doing. Its not even that hard to see how they build attacks. They don't suffer when a player is injured because the team knows how to play. Its not a case of "player X is injured so we can't play like this anymore". As I have said time and again, Liverpool don't have an amazing first XI. What they have is a well coached squad with 18 or so players who all have a job to do and do it well.
No one is claiming that Ole should come in, get rid of 3 first team players with pretty much no replacements and compete for the league. What we do expect is some sort of shape to what we are doing on the pitch. You can't only counter attack. You can't allow your opposition to dictate the game to you. You can't rely on your attackers to win every game on their own and collapse like a flan when they don't. You say people are expecting too much, I say we are expecting something. Some glimmer of a top class manager there. Ole has done a couple of things well and none of them are related to how we play our football on the pitch.
What about Ole makes you think that given 3 years he will suddenly become a world class manager? What about his managerial career and record make you think that?
Permabanned
They really do.
Who would replace Alisson, VVD, Trent, Robertson, Salah, Mane, Henderson, Wijnaldum. Thats world class, back to front.
Caporegime
They really do.
Who would replace Alisson, VVD, Trent, Robertson, Salah, Mane, Henderson, Wijnaldum. Thats world class, back to front.
Henderson and Wijnaldum? Have you been on the whisky. Liverpool have a top class front 3, CB, RB, LB and Keeper. Their midfield is really nothing special. I still think that man for man City have a better squad than Pool but they are just having an off season.
Permabanned
What exactly do they need to do to prove people wrong? Its the midfield that allows Trent,Robertson and the front three to do what they do.
City dont have a better squad then Liverpool. One injury to a cb and they are in bits and have to draft in a midfielder to cover.
To be fair, if we exclude the best keeper in the world, the best fullbacks in the world, the best CB in the world and 3 of the best forwards in the world, who collectively are probably the best front line in the world, what do we have left? Well there is Matip, who outside VVD was probably the best CB in the league in 2019 and arguably the best young CB in the League in Gomez. There's then Fabinho who is as good as any defensive midfielder around right now, who has been seemlessly replaced by Henderson over the past 6 weeks or so, playing the best football of his career, and the criminally underrated Wijnaldum who consistently puts in top class performances in the very biggest games for us.
Players like Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner might not be as easy on the eye as certain other players but my god they've made a huge contribution to where we are right now. They're the standard setters in this side, pushing us on each and every game, which is why we're currently on a run of 28 wins and a draw from our last 29 League games. Maybe if City had a couple of Milner's or Henderson's in their side they wouldn't have been so inconsistent this season.
Players like Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner might not be as easy on the eye as certain other players but my god they've made a huge contribution to where we are right now. They're the standard setters in this side, pushing us on each and every game, which is why we're currently on a run of 28 wins and a draw from our last 29 League games. Maybe if City had a couple of Milner's or Henderson's in their side they wouldn't have been so inconsistent this season.
Caporegime
Im not claiming that Liverpools midfield is not great. Its what enables the forwards to do what they do and supports the defence. The quality of inter-play and guile that the City midfield possesses is much higher than Liverpools but Liverpools is effective. You don't need a squad of 11 superstars to be a top team. Liverpools midfield does what is asked of them and does it consistently. Milner is a massively limited player but he is not being asked to do anything he cannot do and he will always give 100% to do what is asked of him. When you know his limitations and don't ask him to perform outside of them, he is a very effective part of the machine. That is what Liverpool do so well. They are greater than the sum of their parts. Thats what a top managers does to a team. Thats why Ole is not a top manager and is not looking likely to become one any time soon.
Caporegime
Exactly Liverpool have a very good squad now and whilst they do not rely on one play they have great depth when needed. Milner can pretty much play anywhere. Have decently strong midfield with plenty of options, especially with Lallana back. Plenty of options when the front 3 are injured.
Man Utd have a midfield of basically Fred and Mctominay. Injury to either of those is a death knell for any chance of a decent game. People think we will win against Norwich. That game is going to be a massive struggle in itself.
Man Utd have a midfield of basically Fred and Mctominay. Injury to either of those is a death knell for any chance of a decent game. People think we will win against Norwich. That game is going to be a massive struggle in itself.
What's more important and makes a great player, pretty football or effective football? And why don't we value drive and determination when we measure how good a player is? You only have to look at Utd's poster boy, Paul Pogba, to see that technical ability alone isn't enough to make you a great player.
For years I had doubts about Henderson's ability to be a proper holding midfielder, I always thought that he'd only ever excel on the right of a midfield 3 with his running power, but he's proven me and a lot of others wrong. He is an excellent footballer, you're understating his ability however I admit that he still hasn't got the same level of technical ability as a Jorginho for example. What he lacks there though he makes up for with his physical and mental attributes, which are just as important in being a great player. You could put 3 technically better players in our midfield and our results would be worse because those players wouldn't be setting the tone for the rest of the side, driving them on in relentless fashion.
Anyway, your initial statement that we don't have an amazing first 11 was wild. 7 of our first choice 11 are either the best or one of the best players in world football in their positions (possibly 8 if you include Fabinho) and they're supplemented by 3/4 players from a pool of 5 or 6 very good, top level PL players, players which could in some cases make a bigger difference to teams than a Salah or Mane would.
But it's gone from a rapid improvement under Ole, to a massive massive drop, to stagnating at "OK" at best. Nobody's saying you need to be Chelsea, but you do need to shuffle the pack until you get it right, and Ole is not right. He's done nothing to suggest he can get you challenging again. Poch showed at Saints that he can make a poor team perform above all expectations, and at Spurs that he can take a decent team and make them challenge for titles. Yes, it dropped away at the end but I can't fathom why you wouldn't want to give him a shot.
Soldato
Not looking forward to the hiding we'll get tonight. Expecting 3 or 4-0. We're playing NO strikers.
Don
Soldato
Soldato
Went for a slash..
We scored. The number of ******* times that happens..
We scored. The number of ******* times that happens..
Don
Soldato
It's 2020, use pause
Forget that's a feature, doesn't feel right to me using it! Same as recording a live sporting event.. doesn't have the same feel about it.
Pee in a bottle then.
Soldato
Bah, nod it down.