Carragher DM

According to Alan Shearer's comments, maybe Hargreaves would be good at the DM role:

"I feel sorry for Owen Hargreaves. He plays in a diamond at Bayern Munich where he sits in front of the defence and does it very well.

You are no mug if you can get in the Bayern Munich team every week."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/england/4944192.stm#Hargreaves

I don't know whether what he is saying is bs because I don't watch the Bundesliga, but maybe Shearer has a point?
 
Problem is whenever Hargreaves has played for England he's looked poo. Some players make the step up to International level very well and look as good if not better than club level (particularly thinking of Vassell here) but some completely fail to make the grade (Joe Cole until more recently, Beattie, Heskey, Dyer, Bridge). Hargreaves for me is in the latter group.
 
Gilly said:
Gerrard tbh


None taken. I don't agree with you at all. He's a hoofer and clogger, he just happens to be very good at it :)
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Yea but Gerrard would be the best player in every position so i didnt include him :D (maybe not in goal, but i wouldnt bet on it)
As for Carra, Liverpool proberly have the slowest back 4 in the league (Carra is the only 1 i wouldnt class as slow, but he's not quick either) but you rarely see any team get in behind Liverpool's defence, mainly due to Carra organising and reading of the game. Carra imo is a great reader of the game and would have no problem moving back to CM. One of Houllier's most sensible comments was that Carra wouldn't get into anybody's all time Liverpool side but he would always find a place in the current side (if that makes sence). A hoofer and a clogger (no matter how good they were at it) wouldnt be able to play in 4 (5 if you include rm) different positions of a top side without having a good footballing brain.
And anyway Carrick isn't exactly pacey either.
 
Gilly said:
Bad idea. He's not fast enough and he can't pass well enough.

He might be able to make up for his lack of pace through his reading of the game. Thats how Makelele gets away with it, but Carra never struck me as having a particularly good footballing brain. Just a no frills defender.

Carrick is perfect for the role. He's big, he's pretty quick and his short passing is excellent. He can even run with the ball. His only problem is his range of passing.
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Also Carragher himself says he is not a very good defensive mid.
 
atpbx said:
Also Carragher himself says he is not a very good defensive mid.
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He has? :confused:
Burned_Alive said:
I really dont understand how hargreaves keeps getting back in the squad, particularly with the strength of players we have available for midfield.
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I suppose with Cole and Campbell only just coming back from injury and with the potential of having to play Gerrard further forward he gives Sven the ability to play him in several roles. Basically selecting him is like selecting 3 or 4 players
 
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JohnnyG said:
I'm sure he will do a good job as he seems to have a good footballing brain & can turn to most defensive positions. Makele & Chelsea have proved that that system works well if your players know how to do it, my point being that England haven't played that way very often & it seems to be a bit late to turn to it know. I guess it'll just be for tonights game though to see how we do with it:)
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I'm somewhat suprised to see you supporting this move by Sven, given that you have already expressed your concerns about lack of cover at CB/RB! :) Surely if Carragher is playing in midfield that leaves us even thinner at the back?

Personally, if I had to chose a defender to try out at DM for us it would be Ferdinand. He has is 'good on the ball', can pass and of course tackle. His lapses in concentration probably wouldn't be so frequent or damaging in that area of the pitch either, meanwhile Carragher is mr reliable at CB. However, Terry needs a partner with a bit of pace alongside him, which pretty much rules out that.

That said, if it was up to me I wouldn't be playing defenders in midfield to start with. Carrick may not have excelled against Paraguay, but what better way to get back in the saddle than by playing tonight? The time for experimenting has gone, we need to be playing our best team in the next two games so that we can get into a rhythm - if he wants to tinker, do it with subs after 70mins or whatever (Sven needs practice in the art of making effective changes during the course of a game).

Aside from the fact that Owen isn't the best at holding the ball up, I don't see what's wrong with the following lineup:

.................Robinson
Neville.....Terry....Ferdinand...Ashley
Beckham...Carrick...Lampard....Joe
..................Gerrard
...................Owen

Then mess about subs (Crouch? Lennon? etc) if things aren't working or whatever.

Assuming Rooney isn't fit, we have a rubbish strikeforce but a lot of strength elsewhere, so maybe playing 5 in midfield is the way forward.
 
Except having Gerrard and Lampard the wrong way round I'd go with that. Gerrard is a better box-to-box and Lampard is a better attacking midfielder. Gewrrard is a better passer and is good running from deep, Lampard is usually already in the right position.

Both score nice goals from the edge of the box though.
 
I know what every one is saying currently, Carra is being played out of position tongiht, yes he will break up play, his passing is decent but i'm not too sure if he has the pace to perform in that role.

Carrick still hasn't got enough experience, but I agree with Parker, he should be in the squad (he's injured isn't he ? )

But yet, if you play 4 across the back, 5 in the middle in a 1 - 3 - 1 type of formation, you can't play Owen up front on his own. You will have to play Crouch to hold the ball up (which he is very very good at doing before people start) Owen isn't big enough, or hold's the ball up well enough. If Shearer was 5 years younger he'd be perfect for this formation.

Thats my main reservation, although the system would be preferable as Gerrard and Lampard can get forward and bang the goals in like we know they can. You still can't play Owen up on his own, and neither Rooney to some degree. You can bet that if Owen and Rooney were fit, we'd be playing 4 4 2, with Gerrard sitting as Lampard can't perform that role as well. With GErrard being unleashed, you could well see a few goals from him this world cup
 
If you are going to play five in midfield, you dont play it with 5 central midfielders.

You play it with THREE central midfielders, two wingers, and a striker.

Like the team that has been premiership champions for the past two years.

That way, you can **** Beckham off or move him infield, play genuine pace down the right with Lennon, and play your two best mids in Gerrard and Lampard, all you need is one to sit in the middle and just pass the ball around in triangles when we are in posession.
 
atpbx said:
If you are going to play five in midfield, you dont play it with 5 central midfielders.

You play it with THREE central midfielders, two wingers, and a striker.

Like the team that has been premiership champions for the past two years.

That way, you can **** Beckham off or move him infield, play genuine pace down the right with Lennon, and play your two best mids in Gerrard and Lampard, all you need is one to sit in the middle and just pass the ball around in triangles when we are in posession.
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I can see what you are saying, but there are different ways to skin a cat. If you play 3 across the middle ( not tight as in all 3 i nthe center circle) you can play Beckham on the right of that moving to the wing, Joe cole doing the same but on the left, with Lampard playing in the middle pushing on (Carrick, Parker or Carra behind him) with Gerrard playing behind Crouch
 
Sod that. If its 5 across the middle you're after your choices are simple.

Joe Cole

Frank Lampard

Michael Carrick

Steven Gerrard

Aaron Lennon

Lampard and Gerrard do what they do, Cole and Lennon create for them and the guy playing up top and Carrick holds it all together and breaks up the play of the opposition.

If you bring Beckham in you either drop Lennon (makes no sense, whats the point of having Beckham on when all he can do is cross the ball very, very well. We have no target man unless you have Crouch in for Owen). We need someone who frightens the defence with pace. Lennon is that player.

Beckham is the least important regular England midfielder.
 
Gilly said:
Sod that. If its 5 across the middle you're after your choices are simple.

Joe Cole

Frank Lampard

Michael Carrick

Steven Gerrard

Aaron Lennon

Lampard and Gerrard do what they do, Cole and Lennon create for them and the guy playing up top and Carrick holds it all together and breaks up the play of the opposition.

If you bring Beckham in you either drop Lennon (makes no sense, whats the point of having Beckham on when all he can do is cross the ball very, very well. We have no target man unless you have Crouch in for Owen). We need someone who frightens the defence with pace. Lennon is that player.

Beckham is the least important regular England midfielder.
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Totally agree with that post. Have Crouch up front on his own to start with, play gerrard off him with Carrick and Lamps holding midfield. Towards the end of the game you bring Owen/ Theopholis P Wildebeeste on for Carrick and switch to a standard 442.

/Edit and as for Beckham, he will start instead of Lennon but thats life. Im sure there are some behind the scenes meddling from sponsors as there is no WAY on earth he should be captain of England. Terry or Gerrard imho.
 
Burned_Alive said:
King is injured, also id rather he trys stuff like this out 10 days before the world cup than once its started.
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What kind of excuse is that? I rather try he tries it a year before the world cup rather than 10 days
 
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