Soldato
Quite literally "non-binary"...
Caster Semenya could be forced to undertake hormone therapy for future Olympics
- Thread starter dowie
- Start date
Intersex
She would have otherwise been born a man but didn’t develop properly. She has XY chromosomes, internal testes/balls that didn’t drop but her penis didn’t develop and she still has an opening/vagina (but no womb or ovaries).
Because she has internal testes she has very high testosterone levels for a “woman” as she has some level of sensitivity to it she’s rather muscular/has a much more masculine body than regular women and has a deep voice.
I mean you could say she’s basically a bloke whose **** didn’t develop but that would be rude and not quite accurate, she’s been identified as and raised as female since birth.
(Though is a lesbian too and often wears male clothing).
I would say that being a fully functioning women with normal female organs but high testosterone is a natural advtange that makes you win. That's fair, that what half of skill is, being genetically better than you foe.
However I feel for the women in this category, because Caster is technically not a women or a man. She's half and half. (although if your being pedantic she's probably a man with a broken ****)
Think they'll have to just let her compete and ride out this anomaly until she can't compete anymore.
However I feel for the women in this category, because Caster is technically not a women or a man. She's half and half. (although if your being pedantic she's probably a man with a broken ****)
Think they'll have to just let her compete and ride out this anomaly until she can't compete anymore.
thanks very much. if you're feeling triggered may I suggest a safe space and a lie down. or we could sing kumbya if you're of an older disposition.
yeah I forgot about hermaphrodites but in general terms there are ONLY two genders.
A few can switch sex early on if there is a shortage of one (no humans aren't one of them), but there is only ever male or female. There is simply no point to a 3rd.
Anyway, she wants to play football now lol. A physical man playing women's contact sport... this isn't going to end well, he/she isn't exactly dainty either. Some women is going to end up being virtue signalled all the way to hospital. England Woman's team might as well just send Danny Rose on in a wig, **** it.
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she's just a natural version of the old east german athletes of the 70's. Ludmilla Kratochvilova was a chemically produced caster semenya.
Soldato
I didn't think he was asking what is Caster Semenya... More a question of if, its not male or female then what is it? With regards to the context of nature in their quoted post.
Here's one to consider. How many of the trans athletes, i.e. men identifying as women have had their **** removed? strikes me they want the best of both worlds and as such should be forced to wear a better sports bra and stay in the mens competitions.
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Question is, where do you bring her test levels down to? The average? Seems like that more unfair to him/her as then anyone who's mildly above average by genetic chance is at an advantage.
if she's 100% biologically naturaal then the other women have to get on with it. there are plenty of biological freaks for want of a better word in other sports and they don't get penalised.
Soldato
And what about all the species that exhibit bilateral gynandromoprhism?
Man of Honour
That would be fine if you do away with "women" as a protected category in sports. If you want to keep "women" as a protected category in sports, you have to define "woman" strictly enough to make it a viable protected category. If you don't, then in practice in most sports you'll end up with an open category (entirely filled by men) and an intersex category labelled as "women".
Serena Williams is a good example. At her peak, she was one of those "biological freaks for want of a better word" you refer to, in that she's physiologically pretty extraordinary for a woman and inherently better suited to playing tennis than almost all women. She's also extremely skilled and practised at playing tennis. Yet she'd be nobody without "women" being a protected category in tennis. She certainly wouldn't be winning anything of note. Even at her peak, there were hundreds of tennis players who could routinely beat her at tennis. It's very doubtful if any woman could make the top 500 in tennis. Maybe not the top 1000. And that's tennis, which has a huge skill component. Athletics would be right out below ultramarathon distances.
I don't think she should be allowed to compete as a woman, full stop. I'm against medical intervention as that just seems wrong (to force her to undergo treatment purely for performance reasons).
But given her abnormalities, and the performance enhancing nature thereof - and that the effect is not minor but conveying an unassailable performance advantage - she should simply be banned from competing as a woman.
Allow her to compete in non-gender protected categories, or as a man.
Man of Honour
Can you name one species that routinely exhibits bilateral gynandromoprhism? Nobody's denying that developmental sexual disorders exist, just that they're rare and even where they do exist there are still only two sexes. One organism might have aspects of each of those two sexes, but there are still two sexes.
Given that most of these people are unlikely to be particularly exceptional athletes otherwise then at the international level you can be rather generous with the T levels, I believe the current compromise (which only affects some specific running events) gives plenty of scope for T levels well above the average female.
Though there are still additional advantages to having developed with a male-ish (to different degrees) physique in the case of some intersex athletes and literally having developed as male in the case of trans, that can still be rather unfair.
If looking at it from a less emotive perspective without all the extra baggage surrounding gender identity etc.. then the fairer solution would be either a third category for intersex* and trans athletes or having them compete in the male category. (With the emotive angle then male category requires re-branding as "other" or essentially the non-XX female category)
*those with male advantages - those few intersex athletes who don't have male advantages can compete with the female category.
I'm not, I don't think I've ever been triggered. Maybe if you talk like that in person you'd get a reaction? Weirdly no one does, it's only online do people feel brave enough to spew such vile incel induced phoney criticism.
what is it with you and the incel bs? you projecting your own enforced celibacy?
Lol can tell you are new here...
wanna let me in on the secret? or is it your job to bust balls and see if the newbs can take it?