charles and camilla attacked

[Dolph]

sorry you failed, 0/10.

now go back to the real world check the average change in earnings, it will be less than inflation, so try about 2.5% a year as a pay rise with a notional inflation of 3%, although in real terms for real people it will be a lot higher.

A lot of graduates are seeing no pay rise at the moment and a lot are struggling to get a job. Education gives the country a competitive advantage and improves lives. America is not a good example to follow it has a terrible society and is going bankrupt.

Do you know how much chinese students pay for education? (I don't by the way and would be interested to know)

You appear to be forgetting about job progression as well.

Given that the average salary in 1980 was around £5.7K, and the average salary now is around £25,900, the idea that a greater than 5% per annum increase is flawed suggests no knowledge of history.

Remember, we're talking long term averages, not spot rates during a recession. The actual datapoints for salary between 1980 and 2010 fluctuate, but the overall trend is clear.

 

[[TW]Fox]

One thing I would point out. I've worked within the NHS in NI for the past 10 years, the goods times and the not so good times as far as economic policy goes. At not stage did I ever get a payrise which was additional to RPI, the most we got one year was 2.6%, thats in the past 10 years.

Surely you went up an increment within your band each year, completely seperate to the cost of living increase?

 

[LizardKing]

All im saying is why should we "students" have to suffer from burdens the older generation make... When there are clearly more better ways to deal with it...
i dont believe its fair on us, and all the ministers/ bankers should get fired.
you cant crash boat and blame the fish.

Its about making the economy sustainable.
And besides what makes students more deserving of tax money than say a working single mum or pensioner who has already paid his tax's for 50years.

 

[Castiel]

Yes, thank you

I'm sorry but I still see these loans as essentially unworkable though. When you take a loan out the idea is that you pay it off. I'd be very uncomfortable with the idea of taking on all this debt, and then chances are the debt will keep growing once I start earning enough to pay it back.

I can see you concerns, however I still feel that ideology and perceived debt size aside the system really does favour the lower paid when it comes to their real living income on a monthly basis.

Basically it gives the lower paid more money in their pocket long term and the cap on amounts and repayment time means that the more successful are not unduly punished fiscally whilst still subsidising those less well off. Also as Dolph and others including myself have pointed out the Graduate Tax system is actually fiscally more damaging to everyone especially those on lower incomes.

Ideally we would be financially able to offer free tuition to everyone who aspires to higher education, unfortunately for whatever reason we cannot and the proposals are fair and equitable when we consider the alternatives.

 

[meghatronic]

I can see you concerns, however I still feel that ideology and perceived debt size aside the system really does favour the lower paid when it comes to their real living income on a monthly basis.

Basically it gives the lower paid more money in their pocket long term and the cap on amounts and repayment time means that the more successful are not unduly punished fiscally whilst still subsidising those less well off.

It's not even the low paid - I'd pay less than I pay now.

 

[Castiel]

You appear to be forgetting about job progression as well.

Given that the average salary in 1980 was around £5.7K, and the average salary now is around £25,900, the idea that a greater than 5% per annum increase is flawed suggests no knowledge of history.

Remember, we're talking long term averages, not spot rates during a recession. The actual datapoints for salary between 1980 and 2010 fluctuate, but the overall trend is clear.

Indeed. I thought I was being quite conservative especially with the second set of calculations with a 2% lower average increase.

 

[Nitefly]

Castiel, I just noticed, your post count is insane

 

[Castiel]

It's not even the low paid - I'd pay less than I pay now.

Exactly, I realise that no everyone can sit down and work this out for themselves and the big numbers scare people, but overall everyone is fairly treated.

 

[Castiel]

Castiel, I just noticed, your post count is insane

Well given that I posted maybe 40 or more time yesterday alone, that's hardly surprising. It is something I should really cut back on and concentrate on other things to be honest.

Others have similar average counts though, Tefal for example.

Anyway I have a rather expensive lunch date with the wife, because I wasted the entire day yesterday on here even though I was supposed to do stuff fro her

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well given that I posted maybe 40 or more time yesterday alone, that's hardly surprising. It is something I should really cut back on and concentrate on other things to be honest.

Others have similar average counts though, Tefal for example.

You are the closest I've seen to mine

 

[garyfl]

students need to learn to get a grip and deal with it, if you work hard enough you will end up in a good paying job. student here

 

[DM]

Well given that I posted maybe 40 or more time yesterday alone, that's hardly surprising. It is something I should really cut back on and concentrate on other things to be honest.

Others have similar average counts though, Tefal for example.

Anyway I have a rather expensive lunch date with the wife, because I wasted the entire day yesterday on here even though I was supposed to do stuff fro her

You got off light with just a lunch, enjoy

 

[Glaucus]

I'm sorry but I still see these loans as essentially unworkable though. When you take a loan out the idea is that you pay it off. I'd be very uncomfortable with the idea of taking on all this debt, and then chances are the debt will keep growing once I start earning enough to pay it back.

That is no different to how it has worked for years (1999?). When I graduated interest was £20 a month and I was paying something like £6 a month.

 

[Castiel]

You got off light with just a lunch, enjoy

Well the lunch turned out to also include a new pair of boots and a Jacket so not so lightly after all.

 

[Cosimo]

Well the lunch turned out to also include a new pair of boots and a Jacket so not so lightly after all.

I did say make sure you have the pastic handy.

 

[Destination]

Surely you went up an increment within your band each year, completely seperate to the cost of living increase?

Nope, we're paid fee per item still, so you get paid for the work you do.
The item cost increase is our only payrise, no banding.
My pension contributions for the same end result did increase, however, so now they take 11.5% a month in superann.
Our pension is worked out on the basis of each year providing a 1/80th contribution, and thus working 40 years would give you a pensionable amount of 50% of your average earnings in theory, rather than a civil service final salary scheme.

 

[Castiel]

Nope, we're paid fee per item still, so you get paid for the work you do.
The item cost increase is our only payrise, no banding.
My pension contributions for the same end result did increase, however, so now they take 11.5% a month in superann.
Our pension is worked out on the basis of each year providing a 1/80th contribution, and thus working 40 years would give you a pensionable amount of 50% of your average earnings in theory, rather than a civil service final salary scheme.

If I may ask, what is your occupation?

 

[Castiel]

You are the closest I've seen to mine

Crikey!, I thought I spent too much time on here. (the problem with multiple forms of mobile access).

 

[Castiel]

I did say make sure you have the pastic handy.

You are not kidding.

 

[Destination]

If I may ask, what is your occupation?

NHS dentist in Northern Ireland, we never got the units system that arrived into England and Wales, and still work off the old cost per item system that was used for many years right around the UK.

The pension system we have, I think is what should be introduced for the rest of the civil service, as final salary schemes are black holes and unsustainable.
It was recently reported here that there are many NI civil servants and I am sure Uk ones too, who make eitehr zero, or a 1% contribution to a final salary scheme. I find that completely insane, not remotely paying for what they get.