charles and camilla attacked

[Spyhop]

Did anyone see the full video of the Charles/Camilla car incident? The throng sounded like cretins.

 

[mushroomsoup]

They are cretins. Off with their own heads - the jumped up revolting peasant scum..

God Save The Queen

 

[Destination]

Interesting Maths

One thing I would point out. I've worked within the NHS in NI for the past 10 years, the goods times and the not so good times as far as economic policy goes. At not stage did I ever get a payrise which was additional to RPI, the most we got one year was 2.6%, thats in the past 10 years. Basically making a loss each year, when this is factored into the equations repayment will take longer.

I don't care either way, I think now the country is basically broke, people will have to start paying for what they get, and final tier education is certainly part of that. How it is paid for the administration can work out, its just the figures they use don't always make sence. Payrises above RPi for one.

 

[fozzybear]

oh one last thing
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Wh...ad-Because-he-said-he-wouldnt/166510216718495

60k members already...

Thanks Columbo.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

But what do JLS think? Thankfully, The Sun has this to share with us :

By JB of JLS

(BA, Theology)

I'VE been following the student protests and if I was still at uni I'd probably join them.

I don't understand what the increases are for. I don't see what sort of difference they'll make.

I spent less time at university than I did at school.

To pay triple the price to go when you're not there that much, and leave after three years £27,000 in debt - that's harsh.

But when I say I agree with it all, it's only to a certain degree.

I sympathise and understand why there's a protest, but I think it's wrong to go round destroying stuff.

A lot of them there, I bet, aren't students. They don't even care why people are doing it.

They're just there to get involved, make a mess and cause trouble. That's what's wrong.

Yobs seem to be taking advantage of the situation and getting a kick out of breaking windows and smashing stuff up.

I mean, who really wants to be photographed peeing on statues?

Brilliant. I think we've all learned something there.

 

[Castiel]

One thing I would point out. I've worked within the NHS in NI for the past 10 years, the goods times and the not so good times as far as economic policy goes. At not stage did I ever get a payrise which was additional to RPI, the most we got one year was 2.6%, thats in the past 10 years. Basically making a loss each year, when this is factored into the equations repayment will take longer.

I don't care either way, I think now the country is basically broke, people will have to start paying for what they get, and final tier education is certainly part of that. How it is paid for the administration can work out, its just the figures they use don't always make sence. Payrises above RPi for one.

Most people will begin their careers earning the lower end of their career potential, as they get promotions their salary will increase and not just by 2.5% but by substantially more. Average graduates will have five different employers in their lifetime each move increasing their salary, again by substantially more than 2.5%. I factored these average increases due to movement of employer/position into the average annual calculation, using RPI as the base figure.

For example, When I was promoted last year my salary increased by 25% due to the salary range of the new position compared to my previous one.

I already stated the total amount that someone on £22k and below RPI rises only would repay would be around 10% of the total cost of their education so either way the new system is actually fiscally better for the poorer student/graduate than either the current or NUS graduate tax proposal so I feel that the student bodies are being somewhat disingenuous about their perceived plight and are more disappointed that the Lib-Dems didn't scrap tuition fees completely rather than the introduction of the new system being inherently unfair.

 

[atpbx]

i think we should take communism into consideration then, expecially with everyone moaning about pricing - how footballers get too much ect ect... atleast its fair that way.. doesnt china do this?..
i know this is offtopic but yeah my 2cents

Unfortunetly even in communist countries, Footballers and celebrities and Government officials still all earn vastly larger amounts of cash than the plebs.

In fact, in communist countries there are far larger, and far more defined gaps in social standing in its populace.

Do you want to live in a world where there are shops and buildings you simply cannot go into because you have the wrong job?

 

[Jonny ///M]

Why don't you spend less time in this thread and more time reading about the system?

If Person A attends Uni for entry in 2012, he will be loaned £6kish for his fees (Not all Uni's are £9k) and circa £4k for maintenance every year. Thats £30k over a 3 year course.

If he then spends the next 40 years working for £20k a year, he will not pay the SLC a penny. His loan will NEVER be repaid.

Thats how it works. It's not naivity - its how the system works.

Why do people not realise this?

I've got a loan with SLC for two years that I studied. Think I owe about 2.5k or something. I don't pay a penny back at the minute due to having a crap job.

Thinking back it's a bit too easy to get a lot of money to go amuse yourself in education doing pointless degrees.

 

[DM]

Unfortunetly even in communist countries, Footballers and celebrities and Government officials still all earn vastly larger amounts of cash than the plebs.

In fact, in communist countries there are far larger, and far more defined gaps in social standing in its populace.

Do you want to live in a world where there are shops and buildings you simply cannot go into because you have the wrong job?

He already lives in a different world to the rest of us, leave him there, he seems a happy sole.

 

[lixxus]

Sorry, I still don't get you. AFAIK any maintenence loan/grant goes straight to the university, you can't spend it on other things and even if you could you would still have to pay the same amount to the university.

If you are talking about the maintenence grants then that's different, even then if it is spent on lavish things that's their fault, they are still getting it to help them live.

When you say "push forward to paying their loan" do you mean pay off their loan earlier after graduation? If so then that's pretty worthless anyway as most of the time it's better to never pay more than the minimum off and stick the excess into a savings account.

I'm guessing as well that if they do get a £2700 tuition fee grant that they also only get a £300 tuition fee loan?
.

Yes I was on about the maintenance grant and the bursary. Just that alone for low income families kids could pay off the tuition fee loan, coupled with working part time to cover expenses etc.

Yes I totally agree with you.

But the reason I think they are angry is they will no longer be able to put that maintenance grant forward to pay off the full fees? correct me if I am wrong.

The maintenance grant is not increasing ? therefore with increased fees of 6k and a shortfall of 3.5k, that maintenance grant will not be enough to pay for their full tuition fees(if they decide to pay it off early). Obviously depending on how they choose to spend that money. As you said putting it into a savings account would probably be a better idea.

 

[RizlaKing]

I wouldn't have thought it possible in this day and age for some of the ignorant stupidity that has blighted the pages of this thread and most of it coming from those who want us the common people to feel sorry for them and support them. As for the anti royalist rubbish stated on here well that's just sad and pathetic it really is and just because you hear one idiot in the past describe them as sponger's who do nothing but have everything doesn't mean you have to continue the idiocy.

For those saying a broken window doesn't merit a lethal response try to remember on that car a broken window would be the first stage to something worse getting through said window and therefore by the time a threat to life is clear it might be too late as a protection officer your job is not to let it get that far. Really where were all these outraged students when labour broke their promise and introduced the fee's in the first place i don't remember all this back then so i don't think this is anything to do with the fee's it's political.

Labour can do what they want because they are socialist but tories are evil because they always have to come in after labour and clear up the mess labour made which they always do. Seriously some of the students on here really need to do more STUDYING on how we got into the mess were in and instead of going off on one at the people that have to now clear up the mess go have a go at the ones that created it in the first place. Oh they were the same people that got us into the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well so there you go more reason for you to off at them isn't there won't hold my breath though.

 

[lixxus]

I don't give a **** what JLS think.

I want to know what Kerry Katona thinks.

 

[Tombstone]

I don't give a **** what JLS think.

I want to know what Kerry Katona thinks.

I think she said that she would like to have a kid with each protester and then do a reality show about the protests called Katona Kicks Off.

 

[Castiel]

Yes I was on about the maintenance grant and the bursary. Just that alone for low income families kids could pay off the tuition fee loan, coupled with working part time to cover expenses etc.

Yes I totally agree with you.

But the reason I think they are angry is they will no longer be able to put that maintenance grant forward to pay off the full fees? correct me if I am wrong.

The maintenance grant is not increasing ? therefore with increased fees of 6k and a shortfall of 3.5k, that maintenance grant will not be enough to pay for their full tuition fees(if they decide to pay it off early). Obviously depending on how they choose to spend that money. As you said putting it into a savings account would probably be a better idea.

The maintenance Grants are increasing, as are the eligible income brackets.

Read the proposals. How many time do we need to say this....

 

[dowie]

The maintenance Grants are increasing, as are the eligible income brackets.

Read the proposals. How many time do we need to say this....

I don't see the point of giving grants to people who's parents happen to be low achievers.

If there are to be no upfront costs and the loans are to be paid off after graduation and when earning >21k then how is the parent's income when the student was 18 in any way relevant.

Its just PR really so they can say that they're not hurting the 'poor' etc...

Everyone should be treated equally in this - supposing one of these 'poor' students goes onto be a grad at a city law firm earning 30k+ for the first two years then moving onto 60k on qualification. Why should he have relatively little to pay back compared with his peers simply because he used to be 'poor' up until he was 18.

 

[Dolph]

I don't see the point of giving grants to people who's parents happen to be low achievers.

Because not everyone who's parents are low achievers is destined to be a low achiever themselves.

If there are to be no upfront costs and the loans are to be paid off after graduation and when earning >21k then how is the parent's income when the student was 18 in any way relevant.

Because, for some people, their parents can't even give them the money to travel to their Uni location.

Its just PR really so they can say that they're not hurting the 'poor' etc...

Not really, it's an attempt to improve social mobility, something which labour didn't care about because they want a client state. The theory goes that giving intelligent people with little family means a boost means they won't be as dependent on the state as their parents were. It's a good thing, provided, of course, there are sufficient tests to ensure those going are worthy of support.

Everyone should be treated equally in this - supposing one of these 'poor' students goes onto be a grad at a city law firm earning 30k+ for the first two years then moving onto 60k on qualification. Why should he have relatively little to pay back compared with his peers simply because he used to be 'poor' up until he was 18.

Perhaps because the alternative was for them to remain poor and claiming...

 

[dowie]

Because not everyone who's parents are low achievers is destined to be a low achiever themselves.

irrelevant really - either they got into uni or they didn't - whether they get a grant they don't have to pay back later or a loan they might have to pay back shouldn't have any effect on that.

Because, for some people, their parents can't even give them the money to travel to their Uni location.

Why should people's parents have to give them anything - students have ample access to funds - loans to cover tuition and living expenses and banks are more than willing to give interest free overdrafts. The fact that someone's parents can't give them £30 towards a train fair is irrelevant.

Not really, it's an attempt to improve social mobility, something which labour didn't care about because they want a client state. The theory goes that giving intelligent people with little family means a boost means they won't be as dependent on the state as their parents were. It's a good thing, provided, of course, there are sufficient tests to ensure those going are worthy of support.

hardly - the new system has no upfront costs and your repayments are dependent on what you earn after graduation - your situation prior to uni should therefore be irrelevant.

 

[scorza]

Ok we have a result for you. (I hope you appreciate the effort)

Yes, thank you

I'm sorry but I still see these loans as essentially unworkable though. When you take a loan out the idea is that you pay it off. I'd be very uncomfortable with the idea of taking on all this debt, and then chances are the debt will keep growing once I start earning enough to pay it back.

 

[Slam62]

Ok we have a result for you. (I hope you appreciate the effort)
.

sorry you failed, 0/10.

now go back to the real world check the average change in earnings, it will be less than inflation, so try about 2.5% a year as a pay rise with a notional inflation of 3%, although in real terms for real people it will be a lot higher.

A lot of graduates are seeing no pay rise at the moment and a lot are struggling to get a job. Education gives the country a competitive advantage and improves lives. America is not a good example to follow it has a terrible society and is going bankrupt.

Do you know how much chinese students pay for education? (I don't by the way and would be interested to know)

 

[Dolph]

Yes, thank you

I'm sorry but I still see these loans as essentially unworkable though. When you take a loan out the idea is that you pay it off. I'd be very uncomfortable with the idea of taking on all this debt, and then chances are the debt will keep growing once I start earning enough to pay it back.

Would you have an objection to a graduate tax which provides a similar earnings based liability that is far more open ended and can never be paid off no matter what you do?