Chinese (Communist) infiltration of the UK

Devilman said:
It's not surprising the same people who cannot actually vocalize their issues with foreign powers, people and immigration are the same ones screaming "China Bad" without actually providing evidence to back-up their claims.
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Blindly trusting foreign entities is also incredibly naive IMO. The sheer volume of obviously state-sponsor level cyber-espionage attempts directed at the west by China and Russia is pretty eye-opening.

Not sure what this has to do with immigration and Brexit given it's about national security, maybe you just needed a rant.
 
Narj said:
Blindly trusting foreign entities is also incredibly naive IMO. The sheer volume of obviously state-sponsor level cyber-espionage attempts directed at the west by China and Russia is pretty eye-opening.
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Nobody said blindly trusting anyone.

But nice strawman you built there so you could attempt to beat an argument I never presented..

Great job.
 
200sols said:
Jeez. I've seen your drivel in SC but this is madness.

I've already called out the virus comments in this thread no need to do it again, I never tried to defend those comments so stop trying to find an argument were none exists. You seem unwilling to discuss the Chinese infiltration story though, instead resorting to misdirection and trickery for some reason.



Oh my..
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I'm not unwilling to discuss anything.>

I find it funny how people like yourself can construct so many strawmen inside your own head(s) about what I am and am not willing to do. Why is that exactly? Arrogance? An inflated sense ego? Whatever it is, you need to address it pretty quickly, as you seem to spend far too much time GUESSING at what others are unwilling to do.

Perhaps if you spent less time GUESSING what others are doing and more time in actual conversation and ASKING them, you may find you get the answers you want.


As I did with you, When I asked WHY you avoided half of my original post, but only focused on the part you THOUGHT you could "win".

It is playground childishness at the extreme. It would have taken you all of 10 seconds to respond to it, instead you took 3x as long going on about how you had "Already done it in this thread and shouldn't do it again" etc..

It's moronic and infantile. It demonstrates you were only interested in starting (and then "winning") a perceived fight, rather than actually being honest in your discussion(s).

A key point there which you need to focus on greatly... HONESTY IN YOUR DISCUSSIONS.

If you were being honest, you would have answered my original post in full, instead you chose to deliberately avoid the half which you knew to be false..

Selective Reading, Selective Answering, Neither of which are indicative of an honest discussion.
 
Mason- said:
Daily mail and covid conspiracies aside. China is a very real threat.
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It's definitely a matter for background checks and due diligence in sensitive positions IMO. No excuses.

I mean, a lot of people moved over here from China to get away from all that crap.
 
Devilman said:
I'm not unwilling to discuss anything.>
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You are, you are still refusing to answer the most basic questions and instead go off on a rant about dishonesty. If you couldn't grasp I had already dismissed the virus comments as BS then there is no hope continuing to discuss things with you really.
 
Wonder how many are actually active CCP members instead of people who joined in the teens and have since moved on with their lives
 
200sols said:
You are, you are still refusing to answer the most basic questions and instead go off on a rant about dishonesty. If you couldn't grasp I had already dismissed the virus comments as BS then there is no hope continuing to discuss things with you really.
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Which question would that be exactly?

You have yet to post a direct question to me on anything.

Intereseting how you are STILL avoiding half of my original post though.

You're literally doing a trump, doubling down on refusing to answer what you already didn't answer, while accusing others of the very thing you are doing.


Explain to me why I asked you a question, you only answered half of it ?

Could it be because you knew the other half was indefensible so just totally ignored it?


The ******* irony of you talking about refusing to answer the most basic questions, when you totally avoided half of my original post, to do exactly that.... avoid answering a basic question.


Pot, Kettle, Black.


Get some self-awareness ffs.
 
Devilman said:
It's not surprising the same people who cannot actually vocalize their issues with foreign powers, people and immigration are the same ones screaming "China Bad" without actually providing evidence to back-up their claims.
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In the 1930's British people with that same viewpoint about Germany were calling for appeasement with them, and in that case hindsight has shown (and always will) that holding views like this to be incredibly naive at best despite sounding rational at the time - and yes I'm comparing 1930's expansionist Germany to current day China, with its obvious crossovers such as the treatment of "unwanted" people like the Jews, Gypsies in the 30's etc = the treatment of the Uighur today, or the expansion of German territories via military occupation vs China's occupation of Tibet and islands in the South China Sea etc for example.

I know you ask for evidence but would providing reams of evidence of how "bad" China is actually change your mind at all, or have you already made your decision and will stick to irrespective of evidence, I'm genuinely curious to know?
 
Genuine question - Can China be considered communist these days? I know the Communist Party is in charge, and I understand that it's a one party state which heavily cracks down on dissent and where party membership is required for any kind of success but do those things in and of themselves, do they make a country communist?

Certainly in their interactions with the rest of the world, they seem to have embraced a more capitalist free trade approach. Indeed, one could perhaps argue that it is their success as free-market capitalists that is at least in part responsible for their growth as an economic superpower.

While they aren't a capitalist country in the model of the west, I'm not sure Mao, Marx, Lenin or Stalin would recognise the political make-up of modern China as being communist. It seems to me that the central tenants of communism such as communal ownership, a suppression of free trade and a highly nationalised industrial infrastructure are not really present in modern China. Though perhaps someone can show me I'm wrong in this belief.

As for China being 'bad'. I think that's pretty difficult to argue with when you look at how the state deals with political opposition, it's human rights record (and I'm not just talking historically here) and there is no arguing that China's growing economic strength, the amount of foreign debts the Chinese state holds, and it's relations with the west in terms of cyber espionage and political interference does put the current western model of society at great risk. I would argue that's not a bad thing (let's face it there's lots wrong with the west) if it weren't for the fact that, in my mind anyway, the current Chinese model of society would be worse.
 
Devilman said:
Which question would that be exactly?
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The very first thing I asked before you started ranting?

You seem to like going into long winded discussion using lots of CAPITAL letters trying to make yourself seem intelligent but I'm sorry to report that it isn't working! I remember now why you were on my ignore list, time to put you back in your box I think.
 
It has all the hall marks of a facist dictatorship these day, particular due to the capitalist nature of the country (though the CCP corrupt that for trade with the rest of the world to their benefit not just be keeping costs down, but also by increasing the worlds dependence on them so they can wield political clout - eg Austrailia).

Though private ownership of their mega companies are allowed by the state, the state really control them via trumped up charges of corruption etc if the owner steps out of line. Jack Ma was recently put back in his place when trying to float his company.
 
I was reading elsewhere that this is likely just sensationalism. Being a member of the CCP is pretty common, it's kind of like a union, and it's a way of boosting your social standing in China. It doesn't necessarily mean you support the party or are leaking secrets.

Similarly, I read another interesting viewpoint about how China has a much larger view of history than we do - they look back over thousands of years, and saw lots of their inventions get stolen by the west (paper, etc) whereas we in the west are generally more short sighted (~100 years) and don't remember this. So them stealing from us, is kind of just payback for us stealing from them so they don't really see it as "wrong".
 
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