Chinese GP 2009 - Race 3/17
- Thread starter jaykay
- Start date
Honda had a ~45% stake at the time. If Honda had 100% it wouldn't of made any difference as the same people would have been running it.
Teams at the front are always testing the limits, just like Brawn with the DD diffuser. If a team isn't upsetting a few people then they probably aren't doing enough!
They werent deliberately cheating IIRC, it was more the case that they forgot what 'dry weight' wasBrawn=Honda, who are the only team I remember getting race bans for deliberately using illegal parts
Fantastic idea and explanation regards the remaining fuel though...
ps3ud0
spun once, half spun once and went wide once. not exactly matching massas 6 spins at a much drier silverstone.
the mclaren always looked like it was just about to spin in the dry.
Soldato
Lewis' his car was very stiff, at times in the dry his front wheel was in the air (not on the kerb) so I guess his car was difficult to drive in the rain which showed in the race.
My post was directed at the driver Button not Brawn. I have the utmost respect for Ross brawn and what he has done to save the Honda team.
Now back to my original post, its funny how although Brawn has had no wet weather testing, yet the fastest time was set by a Brawn GP car, not Button but Barrichello.
I would suggest you look at the facts before making personal attacks on me.
and yet over 3 qualifying periods and three races - RB has only beaten Button once where it really counted (and another for fastest lap), Im not saying RB is a bad driver, but he has made significantly more serious mistakes so far this season
Whats not factual about that!!!
One single lap in a race means nothing at all - there could be many different reasons for that (ofr instance rain stopping briefly as it did often yesterday just when RB came out of the pits with reasonably hot tyres)
Its not exactly as though RB's race was particularly good on the whole - one little element (of around 2 minutes compared to a 2 hour race) really counts for **** unless its consistant - which RB wasnt obviously being over a minute behind Vettel at the end
You kept on posting stupid inflamatory comments yesterday - so I replied to one of them as I will continue to do
You have to also remember that the Ferrari was known last year to be very sensitive to driver input - it was always on the edge of stability - moreso than this years McLaren looking at it...
Irrelevant though since drivers of that calibre (both vying for the Championship last year) shouldnt be doing such backmarker tricks...
ps3ud0
Soldato
You have to also remember that the Ferrari was known last year to be very sensitive to driver input - it was always on the edge of stability - moreso than this years McLaren looking at it...
ps3ud0
The 2008 Ferrari and Mclarens were both far superior to either of this years efforts, not sure you can compare the 09 Mclaren to the 08 Ferrari!
This apparently was due to new tyres - Brawn mentions this in BBC interview.
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At no point did I mention that RB was World Championship material either, it so happens that he set the fastest time in the race completely contradicting your philosophy of the Red Bull being the faster car in the race, clearly it was not!
The fact of the matter is that Brawn had the faster car (just look at the qualifying times wight adjusted) in China and failed to capitalise on that fact, mainly due to a better driver line up at Red Bull.
What you feel is stupid, because it suggests that Button didn't perform exceedingly well, is the reality of the matter - which I shall continue to post.
For the record its inflammatory not the way you spelt it - but Im sure your spelling is correct anyway
Soldato
When driving in the rain you always have to decide how much risk you are willing to take, looks like Button settled for 3rd place by driving a little slower but safer.
Just look at Hamiltopn and Kovalainen, Hamilton was faster but also spun off a few times, in the end he was slower than his teammate.
Just look at Hamiltopn and Kovalainen, Hamilton was faster but also spun off a few times, in the end he was slower than his teammate.
Button did the right thing - he is thinking about the World Championship and not a single race result. Vettel had nothing to lose, as he had a good car under him, he was in front and if he spun off, it wouldnt have been a big deal, as he probably wasnt thinking about the World Championship (though, maybe he is now). No offence to him or to RBR, but I doubt either of them will be able to beat the Button/BrawnGP combination on a dry track. Obviously, this may change as the season progresses, but I still say that the BrawnGP car is comfortably the best car out there and will only get beat if we have a wet race or Button/Barrichello are involved in an incident.
RBR and Vettel took full advantage of a totally wet track. We know Vettel is one of the best drivers in the wet and he performed to the best of his ability, resulting in 1st place.
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Soldato
When two cars in the same team run away from the 2nd and 3rd cars in the same team it doesn't mean the 1st two drivers are better. If anything I'd plob JB and SVin the same basket and RB and MW in the same basket.
JB out performed RB all day and SVout performed Webber. That doesn't mean nay of them is a bad driver. A wet race is always considered an anomaly. Vettel won that Monza race in a car that was underclassed compared to the Ferraris and McLarens, this time he won it in a car that is the new top level of car along with the Brawns. They are all capable drivers and these rule changes are showing up new stenghts and weaknesses of the drivers on the field and providing us with some new results and exciting racing.
I reckon JB is very deserving and good for taking a title. He's very smooth and quick where he needs to be, he's a thinking man behind the wheel and does just enough rather than try and sacrifice the car to end up getting into a mess.
It was only a few weeks ago Vettel made a judement error shared wityh Jubica (both their fault) which stopped him getting any points at all. It's that kind of drivign that loses you the championship when its otherwise in your grasp.
We'll see him mature very fast this year, but we also have 3 older wiser drivers around him who are also desperate for that title before it's too late for them. Should make for some good entertainment at least.
JB out performed RB all day and SVout performed Webber. That doesn't mean nay of them is a bad driver. A wet race is always considered an anomaly. Vettel won that Monza race in a car that was underclassed compared to the Ferraris and McLarens, this time he won it in a car that is the new top level of car along with the Brawns. They are all capable drivers and these rule changes are showing up new stenghts and weaknesses of the drivers on the field and providing us with some new results and exciting racing.
I reckon JB is very deserving and good for taking a title. He's very smooth and quick where he needs to be, he's a thinking man behind the wheel and does just enough rather than try and sacrifice the car to end up getting into a mess.
It was only a few weeks ago Vettel made a judement error shared wityh Jubica (both their fault) which stopped him getting any points at all. It's that kind of drivign that loses you the championship when its otherwise in your grasp.
We'll see him mature very fast this year, but we also have 3 older wiser drivers around him who are also desperate for that title before it's too late for them. Should make for some good entertainment at least.
Soldato
Hamilton wanted more from this race but it just wasn't to be.
Heikki was just on a sunday drive. He only wanted to finish the race and didn't really care what position. He took no risks at all. Which is a legitimate way to race and certainly was for his position this year. But for Hamilton... he wanted more. Didn't work out for him this time... but that's racing.
Hamilton is in a bit of a pickle at the moment. He has a lot of flak recently from the press, fans, ex-fans, critics etc... Hopefully the FIA will let the Liegate issue go out smoothly on the 29th so it doesn't stir up the hornets nest again. I think Hamilton could have a resurgence in form by mid-season providing McLaren keep improving the car. But I don't think it will be enough for him to contend the title.
Remember that "form" is a temporary thing, whereas "class" is a permanent thing.
Heikki was just on a sunday drive. He only wanted to finish the race and didn't really care what position. He took no risks at all. Which is a legitimate way to race and certainly was for his position this year. But for Hamilton... he wanted more. Didn't work out for him this time... but that's racing.
Hamilton is in a bit of a pickle at the moment. He has a lot of flak recently from the press, fans, ex-fans, critics etc... Hopefully the FIA will let the Liegate issue go out smoothly on the 29th so it doesn't stir up the hornets nest again. I think Hamilton could have a resurgence in form by mid-season providing McLaren keep improving the car. But I don't think it will be enough for him to contend the title.
Remember that "form" is a temporary thing, whereas "class" is a permanent thing.
Weight adjusted times mean nothing, it was dry on saturday and rained on sunday. Doesn't take a genius to work out why that may not make the brawn the fastest.
Forget fastest lap, that doesn't mean the car was fastest in the race. A better comparison would be to see relative lap times at each lap and the gaps to the drivers. Rubens set his time on lap 42. Vettel set his on lap 42 as well. Rubens was on new tyres and Vettel was not. As many other drivers set their fastest laps on 42 as well I suggest that window was probably the best for grip at that moment. Vettel might well not be pushing as hard at that moment or have worn tyres.
It's pretty obvious to just about everyone that the Brawn wasn't the fastest car on the track that day.
The trouble is he doesn't help himself. When asked about Ron the first line he replied with was that he wasn't dissapointed but surprised. Instantly many people just think you ungratefull ****.
Then when asked about if he will see out his 5 year contract, he became all evasive. All he had to say is 'lets hope so'.
I don't think he's very smart at all sometimes. There are also lots of very very loyal employees to Ron and Mclaren. He will have done himself no favours at all.
Soldato
The relationship between LH and RD is strong I'm sure. Why should LH be disappointed? It's not like RD was going to be doing anything this year anyway. He was basically just spectating. It's just like me... I am a McLaren fan but I wasn't disappointed by RD's announcement either.
LH said he was surprised because obviously now the situation has changed and RD announced that he basically wants to distance himself from McLaren F1... perhaps in the hope that the FIA will treat the team slightly more favourably now that the "figure head" has left.
LH tends to get in a strop with the press when he's having a hard time. So he gives short answers and tends to be quite blunt and rather, uhm, economic with detail. That's just how he is. Not ideal perhaps but everyone has to have some negative traits...
LH said he was surprised because obviously now the situation has changed and RD announced that he basically wants to distance himself from McLaren F1... perhaps in the hope that the FIA will treat the team slightly more favourably now that the "figure head" has left.
LH tends to get in a strop with the press when he's having a hard time. So he gives short answers and tends to be quite blunt and rather, uhm, economic with detail
. That's just how he is. Not ideal perhaps but everyone has to have some negative traits...
Man of Honour
I loved it when he said to DC on the grid - "Anyway, you're the man when it comes to women"
In the context I was using it of course you can - the Ferrari was known to be a twitchy car, I agree it was relatively better package than this years McLaren but they both seem to have that same quirk...
ps3ud0