Chinese Grand Prix 2012, Shanghai - Race 3/20

FrankJH · 17 Apr 2012 at 12:42

Mr Jack said:
Hamilton's penalty prevented him from challenging, the timing of Nico's pole lap gave him a clear margin while the others who might have challenged him floundered. This meant Button was held up in the early stages and then his pit stop problem finally killed his challenge. With a more normal qualifying, Nico would have faced being chased down by two faster cars, Button was looking good to catch Nico before his stop.

He may have won anyway, but he wouldn't have had the margin he did.

to be fair he wasnt fast enough anyway through the traffic (after pitstops etc), so unlikely LH would have won in any case

Mr Men said:
I think Ferrari will be keen to get it working, if they can get a decent qualifying gain would greatly help them as their race pace is not too far away.

Given that Ferrari may well have to make major changes to their car anyway - adding this into the (new) design probably shouldnt take that much additional time either , given that they have stated that they have looked at ddrs for some time.

McLaren on the other hand (given their general performance levels) have a lot less to gain, so I would be more surprised to see ddrs on their car and intrnsic gamble on how this affects their already good car

Mr Jack · 17 Apr 2012 at 17:41

arknor said:
button showed nothing that suggested he had the pace to win even early on schumacher started to pull away from button , button was the lucky one lucky schumachers wheel nut never got tightened or he would have been stuck behind schumacher again anyway.

Huh? Button was closing on Rosberg at a truly prodigious rate before his pitstop. Had he continued to do so he would have caught Rosberg before the end of the race.

i dont understand how you can even consider hamilton getting a gearbox penalty nicos luck either...

Do you imagine Hamilton wouldn't have been closer without it?

lets stop clutching at luck because it was far from a lucky win , nico controlled the race there were no unusual circumstances throwing a gamble into the mix.

You seem to be reacting to a point that I'm not making. Nico drove a great race, and deserved his win. It wasn't a lucky victory. However, the circumstances of the race weekend created a situation in which his victory was by a much greater margin than it would have been otherwise.

Mr Jack · 17 Apr 2012 at 17:43

FrankJH said:
to be fair he wasnt fast enough anyway through the traffic (after pitstops etc), so unlikely LH would have won in any case

He was oddly slow, wasn't he? But don't forget that being further up the order would have kept him clear of the battles further down the grid. Rosberg's lead meant he was able to pit and come out into clear air; Hamilton could well have been in a similar position.

FrankJH · 17 Apr 2012 at 17:43

Not sure Hamilton ever showed the pace required to win - he definitely deserved the podium place though

Mr Jack said:
He was oddly slow, wasn't he? But don't forget that being further up the order would have kept him clear of the battles further down the grid. Rosberg's lead meant he was able to pit and come out into clear air; Hamilton could well have been in a similar position.

Even when he was right up JB's backside after the start, he never looked that likely to overtake his teammate

After that he slowly drifted backwards (not helped by being held up behind Massa and co)

He wasnt massively slow by any means, but I think by that point he had settled for 3rd place (imo too early in the race)
if anyone has heard of other issues with his car, then fair enough - but I havent seen anything reported as yet

Mr Jack · 17 Apr 2012 at 18:08

FrankJH said:
Even when he was right up JB's backside after the start, he never looked that likely to overtake his teammate

Yeah, he seemed to have plenty of pace in clear air but took an age to overtake; not what I expect from him

He wasnt massively slow by any means, but I think by that point he had settled for 3rd place (imo too early in the race)

Quite possibly; I suspect he's overcompensating a bit for his incident laden 2011. Still, his new approach has given him a championship lead so it can't be all bad, I guess.

sunama · 17 Apr 2012 at 18:27

Mr Jack said:
Still, his new approach has given him a championship lead so it can't be all bad, I guess.

I think this is his aim.
It is possible that he has learnt from his 2011 season.
He did say a while back, that he wants to win multiple World titles and if he wants to do this he needs to start playing the long game and not trying to win every race in the first 10 laps.

He is leading the title race after 3 races, so while this is the case, he and his team bosses are probably thinking that he needs to stick with the championship leading strategy.

sunama · 17 Apr 2012 at 18:36

Webber vs Vettel (including interview with Newey)

TGV · 17 Apr 2012 at 19:14

Newey's cars have a tendency to be very aerodynamically sensitive and I agree that the banning of exhaust blown diffusers has affected his cars proportionally more than other teams. It is also telling that when presented with a less efficient car aerodynamically, but perhaps more stable, it is Webber that deals with it better.

As for Lewis - he remembers that start to the 07 season that saw him consistently bring home the points. He was in title contention all the way through that year, but didn't win a race until the North American leg about 6 races into the season. He has calmed down and matured recently, and that is a good thing. I think he is quietly learning from JB...

Guerrilla · 17 Apr 2012 at 19:17

sunama said:
Webber vs Vettel (including interview with Newey)

Hopefully this will continue all year

TGV · 17 Apr 2012 at 19:23

Guerrilla said:
Hopefully this will continue all year

Agreed. I was never a Webber fan, but he is growing on me. As long as it keeps "the finger" away.

tummelv · 17 Apr 2012 at 21:58

Might have missed it but have they released all the team radio clips yet in one big file like they have for the first two races?

Weebull · 17 Apr 2012 at 22:58

sunama said:
Lets say you have TeamA, who innovate DeviceA.
[snip]

This is all very well and good, but as dannyjo22 has already pointed out, you said that you didn't see why people would want to copy any part of the Mercedes before this race, on account of them only having one point.

The only thing that changed in China was their tyre wear, and that's not the bit everyone is interested in. The benefit their DRS system provided hasn't altered. So why is it now valid to copy them, and not before?

And why do you continue to ignore anyone that points out that you're wrong about the Williams back end? Either admit that you're wrong, or prove that you aren't. It's quite baffling why you just pretend no-one's said anything. :confused:

FrankJH · 17 Apr 2012 at 23:47

Mr Jack said:
Still, his new approach has given him a championship lead so it can't be all bad, I guess.

Problem for him is that I cant see this lasting until the end of the next race

His team mate has scored nearly the same amount of points in one fewer races (in the sense that it was a pretty unusual for JB to not score at all)

If JB isnt beating LH in the championship by the end of Bahrain I will be very surprised

Guerrilla · 18 Apr 2012 at 08:48

Love this, Kimi looks totally baffled and in need of Sebs help

tummelv · 18 Apr 2012 at 10:28

lol ^

sunama · 18 Apr 2012 at 11:01

FrankJH said:
Problem for him is that I cant see this lasting until the end of the next race

Well, Hamilton had to change something, otherwise, he was going to take another beating this year.

His strategy, so far, appears to be working.

I just seems to me that since last year, Hamilton has been "reduced".

Setroc · 18 Apr 2012 at 11:16

FrankJH said:
Problem for him is that I cant see this lasting until the end of the next race

His team mate has scored nearly the same amount of points in one fewer races (in the sense that it was a pretty unusual for JB to not score at all)

If JB isnt beating LH in the championship by the end of Bahrain I will be very surprised

This seems like a strange line of logic to me, as it's Hamilton that has been dropping points due to bad luck. He lost second position in Australia to the safety car, in , he lost multiple positions in Malaysia to a bad pit stop, and took a 5 place grid penalty in China again through no fault of his own.

I think Button can lead LH if he sorts out his qualifying, but if things remain as they have done so far, I dont see it.

ps3ud0 · 18 Apr 2012 at 11:46

Weebull said:
This is all very well and good, but as dannyjo22 has already pointed out, you said that you didn't see why people would want to copy any part of the Mercedes before this race, on account of them only having one point.

The only thing that changed in China was their tyre wear, and that's not the bit everyone is interested in. The benefit their DRS system provided hasn't altered. So why is it now valid to copy them, and not before?

And why do you continue to ignore anyone that points out that you're wrong about the Williams back end? Either admit that you're wrong, or prove that you aren't. It's quite baffling why you just pretend no-one's said anything.

Just put him on ignore, unfortunately hes one of those anoraks who cant deal with being wrong and need to feel they are the authority on a particular topic. Unfortunately time and again sunama has proven hes anything but - just treat him like lolstockhausen in GD...

The F1 regulars know it, so its not like its not well-known and acknowledged - just let him have his fantasy and hope on the rare occasions he posts something insightful, original and pertaining to this years championship. Hopefully he'll realise hes more valued if he actually admits some humility...

ps3ud0 :cool:

sunama · 18 Apr 2012 at 12:48

Weebul and Dannyjo, sometimes, in life, you just have to agree to disagree. Note: there is nothing wrong with this.

As long as nobody's life is being adversely effected by someone elses opinion/post...does it really matter who wins an argument or if the argument is merely left as a stalemate?

JRS · 18 Apr 2012 at 13:15

sunama - but what on Earth is the point in debating anything on here if we all take your tack, and simply ignore any countering of the argument we're putting forward? At least if you were to respond to the points people are making with some kind of 'defence' (for want of a better term) then that would be something. But instead, you carry blithely on as if no-one posted any rebuttal whatsoever and then post the same remarks over and over again.

Remember when I had to post points I was making in ever-increasing font sizes, using bold, italic and underline tags, just to try and provoke you into actually reading and taking on-board something? The only reason that no-one else does that is that they saw how little success I had with the strategy