Chinese Grand Prix 2012, Shanghai - Race 3/20

FrankJH · 18 Apr 2012 at 13:25

Setroc said:
This seems like a strange line of logic to me, as it's Hamilton that has been dropping points due to bad luck. He lost second position in Australia to the safety car, in , he lost multiple positions in Malaysia to a bad pit stop, and took a 5 place grid penalty in China again through no fault of his own.

I think Button can lead LH if he sorts out his qualifying, but if things remain as they have done so far, I dont see it.

two front row starts out of three, and you think quali needs "sorting out" :confused:

By the same logic that you applied above JB could have won every race so far (his mistake in Malaysia will over taking a back marker while in the lead, and a disappointing 2nd place after a botched pitstop)

I cant see how many can logically argue that LH has proven better race pace so far this season - if anything its exactly the opposite (who cares where JB qualifies as long as the McLaren position is maximized , which it has been in 2 out of three weekends so far - in qualifying)

The expected higher temps in Bahrain should suit McLaren better (as long as its not too hot, as I believe the new tyres have a narrower operating temp than last season) , so their qualifying should be better in general. It was widely claimed that no one did a better lap in the "cooler" 2nd run in final quali in China, so it was a great pity JB didnt prove directly how fast he was against LH by mucking up Q2 a little (again this happened because of cooler track temps, so it shouldnt happen again anyway)

Outcast · 18 Apr 2012 at 15:17

Hehehehe

Face like a wet weekend

Stolen from you know where !!

dannyjo22 · 18 Apr 2012 at 15:54

FrankJH said:
two front row starts out of three, and you think quali needs "sorting out"

IF the mclaren carries on with genuine pace to lock out the front row, then I agree it won't be the end of the world to keep finishing runner up to Hamilton, although there's always a better chance from pole.

If though other cars get in the mix like Merc did last weekend his failure to make saturdays pay could kill him off in the title hunt. We all know how much it takes from the tyres trying to actually race wheel to wheel in these cars and if Hamilton is on pole and JB is in 5th or 6th trying to get passed those cars even if he's much better in race trim could destroy his chances at some of the hotter tracks.

While the car is the best it isn't going to hurt him too much, I agree.

FrankJH · 18 Apr 2012 at 18:07

dannyjo22 said:
If though other cars get in the mix like Merc did last weekend his failure to make saturdays pay could kill him off in the title hunt. We all know how much it takes from the tyres trying to actually race wheel to wheel in these cars and if Hamilton is on pole and JB is in 5th or 6th trying to get passed those cars even if he's much better in race trim could destroy his chances at some of the hotter tracks.
.

come back to me when you have more than just a hypothesis - and actually at least SOME basis in fact from this season

1) Merc's are currently in the mix in cold temps only
2) As stated (numerous times) this was multiplied by VERY close Q2, which gave JB only one run in Q3 (where temps went down even further).

Even given 2) JB was still up to 2nd by lap 14 or so (and would have been even without MS's retirement)

Hotter tracks (it curently looks like) McLaren cant be touched in quali or the race... so Im not even sure where you are getting this from apart fronm pure guess work

Weebull · 18 Apr 2012 at 18:41

sunama said:
Weebul and Dannyjo, sometimes, in life, you just have to agree to disagree. Note: there is nothing wrong with this.

As long as nobody's life is being adversely effected by someone elses opinion/post...does it really matter who wins an argument or if the argument is merely left as a stalemate?

In which case, why do you even bother posting in here? I don't mean that to sound particularly rude, but you consistently use arguments to make points, and yet have no desire to have anyone challenge those views - but if we were like you and did the same, you'd be completely wasting your time.

Why bother with an internet forum where people might want to respond to something you say. Why not just get a blog and live in a proper bubble?

I'm fully aware that arguments often don't get resolved, but you're not even having an argument. You're just talking with ear plugs in.

Weebull · 18 Apr 2012 at 18:45

To get it back on topic mind, about the only thing anyone seems to be able to say with certainty about this season so far is that the McLarens are fast. Everything else just seems all over the place. I've got absolutely no idea what order the pack is in at the moment! One minute Renault are great, then it's Sauber, then it's Mercedes. It'll probably be a Williams on the podium in Bahrain, just to further confuse things.

~Mike~ · 18 Apr 2012 at 18:55

Weebull said:
To get it back on topic mind, about the only thing anyone seems to be able to say with certainty about this season so far is that the McLarens are fast. Everything else just seems all over the place. I've got absolutely no idea what order the pack is in at the moment! One minute Renault are great, then it's Sauber, then it's Mercedes. It'll probably be a Williams on the podium in Bahrain, just to further confuse things.

This.

McLaren have certainly been the most consistent team, have a fast car, have two drivers performing well and they have the best looking car! They could be in a better position if it wasn't for some poor strategy calls and pitstops. But I am sure they will soon sort this out.

ps3ud0 · 18 Apr 2012 at 18:58

Mike306 said:
They could be in a better position if it wasn't for some poor strategy calls and pitstops. But I am sure they will soon sort this out.

You must be new to the sport

ps3ud0

JRS · 18 Apr 2012 at 19:02

Mike306 said:
They could be in a better position if it wasn't for some poor strategy calls and pitstops. But I am sure they will soon sort this out.

Heh. If after all these years McLaren still haven't gotten their strategies sorted then they're never going to!

~Mike~ · 18 Apr 2012 at 19:06

One can only hope.

ps3ud0 · 18 Apr 2012 at 19:31

More likely to win the World Cup tbh

ps3ud0 :cool:

dannyjo22 · 18 Apr 2012 at 20:07

FrankJH said:
come back to me when you have more than just a hypothesis - and actually at least SOME basis in fact from this season

1) Merc's are currently in the mix in cold temps only
2) As stated (numerous times) this was multiplied by VERY close Q2, which gave JB only one run in Q3 (where temps went down even further).

Even given 2) JB was still up to 2nd by lap 14 or so (and would have been even without MS's retirement)

Hotter tracks (it curently looks like) McLaren cant be touched in quali or the race... so Im not even sure where you are getting this from apart from pure guess work

No you are absolutely right qualifying multiple places behind his team mate and behind others car if they get in the mix won't hurt him at all :rolleyes:

I never said they will always be in it, I said IF they get in the mix poor qualifying will hurt him. If hamilton is on pole it will give him the opportunity to create a gap and have first shout on pitstop strategy while button is taking life from the tyres.

Why you think that needs stats and facts is beyond me, it's already a fact.

CaptainRAVE · 19 Apr 2012 at 06:37

JRS said:
Heh. If after all these years McLaren still haven't gotten their strategies sorted then they're never going to!

This tbh. It has been their biggest weakness for as long as I can remember.

FrankJH · 19 Apr 2012 at 06:56

dannyjo22 said:
No you are absolutely right qualifying multiple places behind his team mate and behind others car if they get in the mix won't hurt him at all

I never said they will always be in it, I said IF they get in the mix poor qualifying will hurt him. If hamilton is on pole it will give him the opportunity to create a gap and have first shout on pitstop strategy while button is taking life from the tyres.

Why you think that needs stats and facts is beyond me, it's already a fact.

Majority of your arguement is based on if's. but's and maybe's rather than fact at this point

Qualifying out of position has happened once out of 3 races, in conditions that suited the pole car muchmore favourably than the McLaren.

Even then by the first corner of the race he was up in a much more normal position for the car and in 2nd place for approx 80% of the race, in a car not best suited to the conditions........and in your opinion this is him being hurt by qualifying low? :confused:

If thats the case, JB WILL win the WDC if coming 2nd is such a bad result

The other two times he qualified along side his team mate, locking out the front row - winning one of those races, and leading the race in the other before making an unusual mistake

At this point in time you do not have a leg to stand on

dannyjo22 · 19 Apr 2012 at 10:32

Jesus christ you are not even reading what I'm saying. I said IF he continues to qualify poorly compared to his team mate if the others are getting in the way while hamilton gets pole it will hurt him.

It didn't hurt him at the last race because hamilton had a 5 place penalty. If not that could well have hurt him.

Of course there's no facts based behind that because I said it as a prediction, that if Hamilton continues to get front row slots and Button qualifies poorly with people in the way he's going to be in serious trouble.

Time will tell whether the others get in between them again.

sunama · 19 Apr 2012 at 11:11

CaptainRAVE said:
This tbh. It has been their biggest weakness for as long as I can remember.

Not when Senna was with them

JRS · 19 Apr 2012 at 12:25

sunama said:
Not when Senna was with them

Even then.

FrankJH · 19 Apr 2012 at 13:15

dannyjo22 said:
Jesus christ you are not even reading what I'm saying. I said IF he continues to qualify poorly compared to his team mate if the others are getting in the way while hamilton gets pole it will hurt him.

It didn't hurt him at the last race because hamilton had a 5 place penalty. If not that could well have hurt him.

Of course there's no facts based behind that because I said it as a prediction, that if Hamilton continues to get front row slots and Button qualifies poorly with people in the way he's going to be in serious trouble.

Time will tell whether the others get in between them again.

FrankJH said:
Majority of your arguement is based on if's. but's and maybe's rather than fact at this point

sunama · 19 Apr 2012 at 14:05

JRS said:
Even then.

JRS · 19 Apr 2012 at 14:20

sunama said:

Strategy has always been a McLaren bugbear. Whenever they've gotten it demonstrably right it's either been down to the driver calling the shots or pure luck. It's cost them races, it's even arguably cost them titles.