civikl rights for a peaceful protest gone in this country

[mattheman]

7 hours locked up in a large group unable to leave, took a dump at bank underground station, police wouldn’t let us out, they were taking peoples names, address and photos.

What a disgrace treating people worse than cattle grabbing people that refused to allow them to take their photos, like common criminals holding their hands behind their back to take photos, going into their pockets taking details such as credit card numbers and the name on the credit/debt cards.

Looks like we have lost our right to protest in this country.

 

[mattheman]

What were you protesting against, out of curiosity?

Protesting against the govenment bailout of banks, protesting about the crap govenment we have, protesting about MPs expenses.

 

[mattheman]

Do you realise what would have happened if they didn't bail out the banks?

yes, nothing would really happen as banks are seperated into different companies.

 

[mattheman]

What would have you rather happen other than the Government bailing them out?

In what ways would you like to see the Government change? Have you written a letter to your MP?

Yes ive sent a letter to my local MP, came back with some crap etc....

For a start all directors fired for a start, company sold to other banks, this would force the banks to price their MBS.

 

[mattheman]

if you were that bothered youd at least write something about what your protesting about, to get others on here involved, but no youve gone on a rant about police which no one wants to hear.

it doesnt really matter what people protest about, what really matters is the right to a peaceful protest and not rounded up ,locked up against your will like in some 3rd world countries which is important here.

 

[mattheman]

Did the police stop you protesting?

Yes they did we were supposed to march and they didnt allow us, they refused people to join the protests.

 

[mattheman]

You got a peaceful protest, and the police made sure it didn't get out of hand.

I don't see the problem.

It wasnt peaceful, people were pushing and shoving trying to gain a little space while the police were pushing up back, it felt like being in a compact scrap machine. It then got to the point were people started to throw empty plastic bottles because of this, at one point in the evening after hours unable to sit down people were getting restless and were planing a massive rush around 6 pm.

 

[mattheman]

Tough.

Perhaps if you'd asked permission from the police in advance for a marching route, they would have made the necessary arrangements, that's what happens here in Northern Ireland for all the marching bands, and it generally works quite well.

But seeing as no-one bothered....well....who's to blame there then?

There was a route planned the police new of this.

 

[mattheman]

I'm sorry, but what education exactly do you have on the issue? You're making yourself look like a complete tool, and for the benefit for the right to protest without the stigma attached (which morons on here are throwing around like it's free); I would rather you didn't.

I take it you dont really know how the banks are organised, the right to protest is everyones right, if people didnt protest you really think you have the same freedoms you have now, however as each year pass your freedoms are eroding.

 

[mattheman]

What protest were you at? BoE?

near the tescos at the bank of england.

 

[mattheman]

LOL the governments must be crying with laughter if you're an example of an average protestor, can't even handle being in a crowd which is barely a fraction of what you'd get at your standard summer festival

But they stepped on mah toes Wanna go home :cries:

You have no idea what your talking about at a festival you have the ability to move or leave, at the protest you couldnt move or leave. after a few hours you get sick of being pushed about think about being their for 8 hours unable to go to the loo etc..

 

[mattheman]

Have you considered the life changing consequences of having banks going bust left right and centre?

Banks going bust is fine, certain assets can be transfered to other banks or BOE. What you seeing here is massive failure, people at the top keeping their jobs getting paid massive bonus for the passed too years, if it were a normal company bonus wouldnt be paid, directors and underperforming senior staff would be fired.

 

[mattheman]

Now, I understand the desire of the police to contain potential trouble makers, but if this is true, then that is totally overhanded by the police.

To others: what is the point in having the right to protest if we cannot exercise it for fear of being both labelled a nut and then abused by the authorities for doing so?

Stop being knee-jerk (neil2k) and actually consider the implications of this.

However, one could argue that the protests on this particular occassion regarding the state of the economy was unnecessary - we all know it's in a poor way.

It makes me laugh, I saw some fat git smashing a window of RBS on the News yesterday in faux-anger for the state of the economy. I honestly wonder if the guy was affected at all. Why tarnish the good name of the many with the stupid, selfish actions of a few? Hell, I'm unemployed because of this mess and have every right to be annoyed but you don't see my smashing windows in; it just seems so uncouth.

Protesting against the bail-outs is pointless as it had to be done. If you understand even a little bit of how the economy works, you'd know this. Instead, you should've been protesting in favour of more banking regulation to help prevent such a mess happing again in the future! Likewise, climate change issues certainly need to be brought to the fore but when the face of the 'pole' is that of half brain-dead, dreadlocked morons, you will only ellicit dissonance within the right-winged materialistic morons who are in charge of the policy-making or interests which shape such policy.

Protests are all well and good, but people are doing themselves no favours at the moment and defending the police's actions in treating innocent protesters like criminals is just as bad.

Bailing them out is a moral hazard, they havent learnt their lessons, christ one top banker last week said we have too much regulation.

 

[mattheman]

Don't talk to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. I clearly have more insight into this than you do.

I am staunch defender of human rights and associated liberalism - protesting comes under this, but for you to assume that I'm against protesting simply because I told you you were wrong about the banks? Don't be stupid.

Protesting is a much needed thing. In fact I made your very argument last week (probably in defence of you) but that doesn't change the fact that protesting about the 'bank bailout' is pointless. The banks had to be bailed out or things would be a lot, lot worse than you realise.

As I said in my last post: the bailouts had to happen. Indeed, it is pointless to argue a counter-factual now. If you must do something productive; protest in favour of regulation.

This mess is because of the govenment not the bankers, the bankers just saw a loop hole to make money, years ago and the government recieved benefits from this thus keeping the ball going.

 

[mattheman]

Not bailing them out would have meant true economic ruin, not a recession.

no sorry have to disagree with you, it would have been far cheaper.

 

[mattheman]

You don't understand though do you? The bailouts had to happen or economic life as you know it would have come to a complete end.

As I said, you want to avoid this moral hazard? Protest for regulation instead!

Sorry economic life would not end, why should i pay others that couldnt afford a mortgage or their debts helping to push prices out of reach for so many. So what has this shown its ok to borrow money everyone else will pay, the rich get richer the poor get poorer.

 

[mattheman]

Seriously now, how much do you know about the situation and where are you getting your information?

You're jumping in the deep end with an incredibly simplistic view on things.

Because it is simple, they make it complex so that the common worker can't understand the problem.

 

[mattheman]

I seem to remember frequent bombings both on the mainland and in NI and hundreds of people being killed or dismembered. I hear where you're coming from but frankly I don't want any more bombs, even if I do have to carry an ID card. I live in Spain currently and here they've had id cards since, I believe, 2000.

edit: actually 3,526 people were killed during 'the troubles'!

forcing people to have id cards doesnt stop terrorists, a good example is ETA, id cards have been around in spain for ages for almost 40 years. It didnt stop the madrid bombings did it?

 

[mattheman]

As you know it, today, it would. Banks have been an evolving institution side by side with our very politics and culture since the 1700s. If they weren't bailed out, they would have collapsed. Should they have collapsed, the very way the country is run would have been jepordized. Yes, it's safe to say that life as you know it today would pretty much come to an end.

Why? Perhaps you should stop being so quick to jump the gun and read up on what you're talking about: the relationship of credit and debt, and how the modern financial system actually creates its wealth and indeed, functions.

All these simplistic problems which you have (somewhat obscurely) managed to conclude are nevertheless central issues and as such regulation would go a long way to help prevent these issues in the future.

And now, I don't wish to sound rude but you really are boring me and I hate repeating myself.

Debt doesnt create wealth, it in fact is erodes wealth for the masses, debt is pay for by future wealth.

 

[mattheman]

First of all ETA weren't responsible for the Madrid bombings. Of course, you're right id cards can't stop terrorist attacks, I never said they could. My point is that erosion of perceived civil liberties may be necessary to help prevent terrorist attacks.

I never said ETA were responcible for the madrid bombings, what i said was they had id cards for 40 years yet ETA carried out bombings around spain. The madrid bombings werent avoided were they when evey spainish and non spanish citizen has some form of ID card.