Clock changes: EU backs ending daylight saving

Orionaut · 1 Sep 2018 at 20:58

billysielu said:
Once you accept that time and sunlight don't need to be linked - you can do away with timezones entirely. We only really need one time - UTC.

Actually, back in the day, there were no time zones. Only "Local" time mattered (12:00 Noon, being, well, 12:00 Noon when the Sun was highest in the sky and due south wherever you were)

I am not sure who first introduced the concept of a unified "Time Zone" but it might well have been Britain.

The issue was railway timetabling, though this had been a minor issue with stage coaches (mitigated by coach drivers carrying two watches one running slightly fast, the other slightly slow, timed to correlate with the speed of east/west travel and with different watches being used depending on whether one was traveling east or west.)

But trains traveled fast enough for this to be a real issue. so the railways adopted "Railway Time" IE everything was corrected for GMT. Station clocks would have two Minute hands. One corresponding to the local time, the other to GMT which was the time the trains ran oo. The further west one got from London, the greater the discrepancy between the two hands became.

Eventually "Railway Time" was adopted across the whole country, Probably when electrical communication (Essentially instantaneous) became commonplace and work place times had to be harmonized in a similar way to railway timetabling to prevent problems.

kitch9 · 2 Sep 2018 at 08:42

Malevolence said:
Why is that a problem? It was still dark when we used to cycle to school, and nothing happened. Well, I say nothing but I do remember my mate Sean ending up in the freezing canal once, but he did say something like "Now watch this" first.

Millions of kids go to school, not just you and your mates.

Greebo · 2 Sep 2018 at 11:14

kitch9 said:
Millions of kids go to school, not just you and your mates.

So why not leave it on gmt winter time then? Why not just stop putting them forward in summer if the only reason seems to be kids walking to school in the dark in winter?

adidan · 2 Sep 2018 at 11:16

Kids are the future. Adults are now. Think of the adults.

How many kids even walk to school nowadays out of curiousity?

angel102 · 2 Sep 2018 at 11:19

this all started more than a century ago when 99% of the country didn't have gas streetlighting, let alone electric lamp posts every 20 yards even in the country. No reason at all to keep changing clocks in this day and age, even in Scotland with the shorter days.

Tefal · 2 Sep 2018 at 17:44

billysielu said:
Once you accept that time and sunlight don't need to be linked - you can do away with timezones entirely. We only really need one time - UTC.

How does that work?
It makes time utterly confusing doesn t it as day 12pm suddenly becomes every time of day.

So "I normally have lunch at 12" doesn t work as as you cros each time zone it becomes 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 equivalent and so nonsensical to the person your talking to as 5 hours ahead 12 to them would be as they finish work

Tefal · 2 Sep 2018 at 17:44

Greebo said:
So why not leave it on gmt winter time then? Why not just stop putting them forward in summer if the only reason seems to be kids walking to school in the dark in winter?

People wpuld need blackout blinds in the summer?

Randomface74 · 2 Sep 2018 at 19:31

Tefal said:
How does that work?
It makes time utterly confusing doesn t it as day 12pm suddenly becomes every time of day.

So "I normally have lunch at 12" doesn t work as as you cros each time zone it becomes 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 equivalent and so nonsensical to the person your talking to as 5 hours ahead 12 to them would be as they finish work

That makes perfect sense to me...

Amp34 · 2 Sep 2018 at 20:12

ron3003 said:
Kids walking to school in pitch darkness, what's not to like?

You got it the wrong way round. The discussion is about getting rid of DST, not GMT. So no change of clock in summer. Winter time wouldn't change - this I counted to the UK governments proposal which was to get “rid” of GMT and move to summer time year round.

The UK sticking with GMT year round is the right way to do it IMO, better than forcing half the population to get up and commute/wall to school in the dark in the morning.

Amp34 · 2 Sep 2018 at 20:29

Tefal said:
People wpuld need blackout blinds in the summer?

Does the sun shine for an extra hour or something?

All that happens is it gets dark earlier and light at half past 3 rather than half past 4.

Keeping to BST means sunrise will be at 9am in London in winter, so for a couple months of the year anyone working 9-5 won’t see the sun on a weekday. All those zombies driving around for months on end having just woken up without any natural light.

Greebo · 2 Sep 2018 at 20:47

Amp34 said:
Does the sun shine for an extra hour or something?

All that happens is it gets dark earlier and light at half past 3 rather than half past 4.

Keeping to BST means sunrise will be at 9am in London in winter, so for a couple months of the year anyone working 9-5 won’t see the sun on a weekday. All those zombies driving around for months on end having just woken up without any natural light.

I work longer than 9-5 and never see any dayLight in winter on a weekday anyway

Amp34 · 2 Sep 2018 at 20:54

Greebo said:
I work longer than 9-5 and never see any dayLight in winter on a weekday anyway

Well changed jobs then.

Tefal · 2 Sep 2018 at 20:56

billysielu said:
That makes perfect sense to me...

You think its best that in every time zone people have differnt ideas of when each hour is relative to the point in the day?

Rather than a common reference.

Dinner is at 6pm is understandable to everyone no matter where they're from or where they're traveling to.

Under a universal time that is now meaningless unless you know where I live.

StriderX · 2 Sep 2018 at 20:58

Lol, Dinner just needs to be after lunch, time is irrelevant garbage.

Greebo · 2 Sep 2018 at 21:16

Tefal said:
You think its best that in every time zone people have differnt ideas of when each hour is relative to the point in the day?

Rather than a common reference.

Dinner is at 6pm is understandable to everyone no matter where they're from or where they're traveling to.

Under a universal time that is now meaningless unless you know where I live.

Dinner isn’t at 6pm??? Dinner is anytime between 12 and 1 normally. I believe you are referring to “tea”?

CaptainRAVE · 2 Sep 2018 at 21:17

Focussing on the important issues I see.

Greebo · 2 Sep 2018 at 21:20

Well tea (or dinner for the posh people on here) was at whatever time we all finished put jobs and gathered together when I grew up. Sometimes that was as early as 4.30pm, other times it was as late as 8pm.

Tefal · 2 Sep 2018 at 22:19

Greebo said:
Dinner isn’t at 6pm??? Dinner is anytime between 12 and 1 normally. I believe you are referring to “tea”?

But with universal time 6pm in middle of America would be between 12 and 1!!!

The havoc

Tefal · 2 Sep 2018 at 22:20

StriderX said:
Lol, Dinner just needs to be after lunch, time is irrelevant garbage.

"Sorry I came into work 5 hours late but time is irrelevant when you think about it"

Randomface74 · 2 Sep 2018 at 23:37

Tefal said:
You think its best that in every time zone people have differnt ideas of when each hour is relative to the point in the day?

Rather than a common reference.

Dinner is at 6pm is understandable to everyone no matter where they're from or where they're traveling to.

Under a universal time that is now meaningless unless you know where I live.

Yes.
To flip it around.. when someone in the uk says its 6pm and someone in the usa says its 6pm those don't happen at the same time. The whole point is to provide a standard reference for what time it is! We're measuring time not sunlight!