Core 9000 series

[humbug]

It's not extensive, really. If you're comparing latency and frequency but not sub timings, then you're covering already tread ground. All depends on how much one wants to tune, however, Zen+ still isn't capable of running timings at or close to the minimum spacing required by the chipset, something that's been viable on Intel's part since Broadwell-E. Something that's especially impressive when nearing 3866-4000Mhz on SKL and beyond.

Unless one wants to run Cinebench all day, the synthetic cherry-picking only goes so far, especially when it comes to gaming.

Ram on Intel makes very little if any difference, certainly above about 3200Mhz the difference on Intel is 0, don't take my work for it.... https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews..._Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/9.html

With that what's the point if the gaming performance on Ryzen 2 is similar to Coffeelake with the Ram at 3200/3400Mhz?

In fact if you want to be critical of AMD's design? Infinity Fabric is better than Intel's Interconnect Mesh, you didn't replace your Broadwell-E with SkyLake-X did you? for gaming clock for clock SkyLake-X is slower than Ryzen 2

Video in here https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/ryzen-2600-vs-core-i9-7800x-in-37-game-benchmark.18820868/

 

[Smffy]

People seem to be a bit very Ryzen defensive these last few pages when I don’t think anyone’s actually said anything about it being no good...

 

[Silent_Scone]

Memory plays fine on Ryzen 2 and X470. I've read of scant issues on the new boards. Ripping AMD for this is genuinely hilarious in light of Intel's shenanigans. The crappy IHS alone is just a joke... having to void your warranty just to get desirable temps is pathetic. Or of course pay a fortune for the likes of OCUK to do it for you, which makes even less sense.

Intel still have the edge in games but an 'edge' is all it is, you won't even notice in the vast majority of cases, especially above 1080p. I'm just fed up with their business practice and treating consumers like mugs, simply because they've had the market to themselves for so long. My switch to Ryzen 2 was an easy one personally, as it's been for many.

It's a processor, it's a silicon wafer. Faster is faster. Which is something Intel are when it comes to gaming. That's just the way it is. How exactly has Intel been treating their customers like mugs?

I sure don't feel like a mug having access to a DDR4 HEDT platform literally half a decade longer than their competitors could produce an offering. That's literally a life time in product cycles.

Come now, be realistic.

Ram on Intel makes very little if any difference, certainly above about 3200Mhz the difference on Intel is 0, don't take my work for it.... https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews..._Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/9.html

With that what's the point if the gaming performance on Ryzen 2 is similar to Coffeelake with the Ram at 3200/3400Mhz?

In fact if you want to be critical of AMD's design? Infinity Fabric is better than Intel's Interconnect Mesh, you didn't replace your Broadwell-E with SkyLake-X did you? for gaming clock for clock SkyLake-X is slower than Ryzen 2

Video in here https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/ryzen-2600-vs-core-i9-7800x-in-37-game-benchmark.18820868/

So to confirm, for a gaming CPU you'd recomend what exactly?

Intel Mesh complies more with the server space, yes. Yet it still beats Zen consistently in gaming. So your point is what exactly? I've studied these platforms in depth with vendors already, Humbug. There's no magic bullet here.

As for incremental gain with memory, the fact there is less benefit beyond a certain point is a moot point. Ryzen 2 is not a better gaming CPU then Skylake-X, there's just no arguement there.

 

[humbug]

So to confirm, for a gaming CPU you'd recomend what exactly?

Intel Mesh complies more with the server space, yes. Yet it still beats Zen consistently in gaming. So your point is what exactly? I've studied these platforms in depth with vendors already, Humbug. There's no magic bullet here.

As for incremental gain with memory, the fact there is less benefit beyond a certain point is a moot point. Ryzen 2 is not a better gaming CPU then Skylake-X, there's just no arguement there.

Yet it still beats Zen consistently in gaming. So your point is what exactly?

My point is this

Yet it still beats Zen consistently in gaming.

is false, Scone, 37 games, 7800-X at 4.6Ghz, Ryzen 2600 at 4.2Ghz the Ryzen 2600 wins in games. You really have got to a stage now where you are reduced to denying what you can see with your own eye's.

So to confirm, for a gaming CPU you'd recomend what exactly?

I would recommend Zen over SkyLake-X for ANYTHING, Skylake-X is a steaming pile of poo with no use for anything, no really what even is its purpose? its vastly more expensive, uses far more power, runs hotter than the Sun and is slower than Zen, why does it even exist?

 

[Troezar]

I would recommend Zen over SkyLake-X for ANYTHING, Skylake-X is a steaming pile of poo with no use for anything, no really what even is its purpose? its vastly more expensive, uses far more power, runs hotter than the Sun and is slower than Zen, why does it even exist?

Lack of competition...

 

[humbug]

Lack of competition...

where does Ryzen 2### not compete with Skylake-X? its better in every way.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

My point is this is false, Scone, 37 games, 7800-X at 4.6Ghz, Ryzen 2600 at 4.2Ghz the Ryzen 2600 wins in games. You really have got to a stage now where you are reduced to denying what you can see with your own eye's.

SKL-X is pointless for a gaming build,since it even underperforms in games which tend to run poorer on AMD CPUs in general:
https://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/14689?key=51b6c375f557cb62e67cbdd5bfddb87f

The 8 core CFL will make it even more pointless - at least Ryzen has price on its side,not SKL-X which is expensive for the CPUs and needs expensive motherboards and quad channel RAM.

 

[Legend]

It's a processor, it's a silicon wafer. Faster is faster. Which is something Intel are when it comes to gaming. That's just the way it is. How exactly has Intel been treating their customers like mugs?

I sure don't feel like a mug having access to a DDR4 HEDT platform literally half a decade longer than their competitors could produce an offering. That's literally a life time in product cycles.

Come now, be realistic.

Crappy IHS resulting in unnecessarily high temps when AMD have proven this isn't at all necessary when you make the CPU properly. It's a cost cutting approach with absolutely ZERO benefit to the consumer, just more money in Intel's pocket. If you can't see this, you are blind. Add to that constant shifting to new motherboards for each CPU release, meaning Intel owners wanting to upgrade their CPU need to buy a new motherboard as well. AMD are committing to AM4 until 2020... not THAT far away admittedly, but Intel will probably have another 3-4 CPU releases by then, each requiring a new motherboard.

As I said, Intel DOES have the edge in gaming, but only just. Most people aren't going to notice it, especially at 1440p and 4K. You simply can't dismiss the fact that something isn't noticeable as not being a significant factor in decision making when it comes to purchasing AMD or Intel, especially in light of everything else.

And let's not forget the quite obvious fact that if you're undertaking tasks that take advantage of multi-threading, Ryzen wins hands down, despite Intel's claims that it offers "unprecedented Power and Responsiveness", when actually it doesn't given AMD have delivered on that front far more convincingly and at significantly better value when it comes to multitasking.

 

[Troezar]

where does Ryzen 2### not compete with Skylake-X? its better in every way.

I think you missed my point AMD didn't provide enough competition and Skylake-X was born. I agree Ryzen is a better bet and because of that Intel will have to significantly up their game.

 

[4K8KW10]

Lack of competition...

More likely presence of opposition

 

[humbug]

I think you missed my point AMD didn't provide enough competition and Skylake-X was born. I agree Ryzen is a better bet and because of that Intel will have to significantly up their game.

Ok

 

[humbug]

SKL-X is pointless for a gaming build,since it even underperforms in games which tend to run poorer on AMD CPUs in general:
https://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/14689?key=51b6c375f557cb62e67cbdd5bfddb87f

The 8 core CFL will make it even more pointless - at least Ryzen has price on its side,not SKL-X which is expensive for the CPUs and needs expensive motherboards and quad channel RAM.

Right More over Intel's Interconnect Mesh was designed so that very high core count CPU's are possible, the traditional Ring Bus breaks down after 10 cores or so.

Infinity Fabric exists for the same reason, only it is much better in the sense that from a technology intent stand point it is more advanced, probably a few years ahead of Intel, with it AMD can break up the CPU into chiplets increasing the core count far higher than monolithic dies, 64 cores on a single package this year, this vs 28 on the Intel side.

Now that's one thing ^^^^ the fact that the IPC is while less than coffeelake with its Ring Bus, on a single core, its by 3%, in other words nothing, even for gaming there is literally nothing in it clock for clock, where as vs Intel's solution for High core counts Ryzen 2 is clock for clock 10% or more better than Skylake-X in gaming.

So for two different systems implemented to get around a problem AMD's is in every way better than Intel's, much better, there is no getting away from that and i think credit where credit is due.

 

[Smffy]

where does Ryzen 2### not compete with Skylake-X? its better in every way.

I think you missed my point AMD didn't provide enough competition and Skylake-X was born. I agree Ryzen is a better bet and because of that Intel will have to significantly up their game.

More to the point chaps why are we constantly going on about comparisons to Skylake-X when the thread is about Coffee Lake replacements

Ryzen is good we get it, new 'gaming king' 8700k replacement coming out (or is that new 8086 ) - discuss. Only thing which would convince me to offload the 8700k would be the addition of 2 more cores without dipping below the 5ghz mark... Not sure how likely that is but would certainly be impressive.

 

[humbug]

More to the point chaps why are we constantly going on about comparisons to Skylake-X when the thread is about Coffee Lake replacements

Ryzen is good we get it, new 'gaming king' 8700k replacement coming out (or is that new 8086 ) - discuss. Only thing which would convince me to offload the 8700k would be the addition of 2 more cores without dipping below the 5ghz mark... Not sure how likely that is but would certainly be impressive.

Anything is possible with a 750 Watt Water Chiller

 

[gavinh87]

Not been on here for a while but good to see humbug still fighting the ryzen corner

 

[humbug]

Not been on here for a while but good to see humbug still fighting the ryzen corner

Welcome back

 

[B1gbeard]

More to the point chaps why are we constantly going on about comparisons to Skylake-X when the thread is about Coffee Lake replacements

Ryzen is good we get it, new 'gaming king' 8700k replacement coming out (or is that new 8086 ) - discuss. Only thing which would convince me to offload the 8700k would be the addition of 2 more cores without dipping below the 5ghz mark... Not sure how likely that is but would certainly be impressive.

It's not even new information. Just the same regurgitated AMD propaganda by the same people in every thread. They are so obsessed they are completely unaware of the effect it has or even that it's a problem. I've stopped going into most threads as they are generally ruined by it and I am sure I am not the only one.

 

[Smffy]

It's not even new information. Just the same regurgitated AMD propaganda by the same people in every thread. They are so obsessed they are completely unaware of the effect it has or even that it's a problem. I've stopped going into most threads as they are generally ruined by it and I am sure I am not the only one.

It’s all getting a bit GPU up in here isn’t it...

 

[eddiew]

Ram on Intel makes very little if any difference, certainly above about 3200Mhz the difference on Intel is 0, don't take my work for it.... https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews..._Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/9.html

Interesting link, thanks @humbug

Given that I seem to be bouncing my IMC off it's sensible voltage limit, I might bring my memory down a touch to help it out. Really isn't going to make that much difference

 

[humbug]

Interesting link, thanks @humbug

Given that I seem to be bouncing my IMC off it's sensible voltage limit, I might bring my memory down a touch to help it out. Really isn't going to make that much difference

Yeah, no point in cooking it, you get nothing for it