COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

Boom!

A market in Wuhan, China, was the epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic, and the virus emerged from activities connected with the live animal trade, according to research published in Science on Tuesday.

Why it matters: The case-mapping and genetic studies offer some of the strongest evidence yet that the coronavirus jumped from an animal host to humans — a type of zoonotic spillover seen in other outbreaks like SARS, from 2002 to 2004.

What they found: There were two lineages of the virus introduced in humans as early as November 2019.

  • The variants over time spread into the neighborhoods surrounding the market and beyond, challenging the idea the market was the source of a single superspreader event.
  • Early cases linked to the part of the market where wildlife sales took place resemble cross-species transmissions later observed on mink farms and from infected hamsters to humans in the pet trade.
What they’re saying: University of Glasgow virologist David Robertson told BBC News he hoped the studies would "correct the false record that the virus came from a lab."

  • "In a city covering more than 3,000 square miles, the area with the highest probability of containing the home of someone who had one of the earliest COVID-19 cases in the world was an area of a few city blocks, with the Huanan market smack dab inside it," per University of Arizona biologist Michael Worobey.
The intrigue: While early patient data showed few of those hospitalized had a direct link to the market, Robertson said, “it's exactly what we would expect, because many people only get very mildly ill, so they would be out in the community transmitting the virus to others and the severe cases would be hard to link to each other.”

  • A map of samples collected from market stalls showed most that tested positive for the virus were on the southwestern side, where animals like Raccoon dogs and hedgehogs were sold.
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RIP biolab conspiracy theory. Press F to pay respects. 1 like = 1 prayer.
 
burtie said:
She is the manager, I've simply said if the test is still postive she can't go back regardless of how she feels. Seems like common sense to me.
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That makes you the manager! :cool:

Shoe on the other foot though, best to be on the safe side and wait until her test is negative like you said. She'd probably not be happy catching it from someone who ignored their positive test.
 
LOAM said:
LFT aren't picking this variant up early. If it's like out lot you'll be a couple of days in before the test shows positive
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Third day of feeling rubbish, third day of negative nasal lft.

On top of the aches and massive fatigue (legs feel so heavy just getting up and moving to another room at snail's pace), now feels like sinuses swollen and a sore throat developing.

Given how my initial reaction in March '20 was very mild (the opposite of my partner), I do wonder that despite it being seven months since my booster, is it quite feasible I could currently have covid and not give an lft positive result?
 
UTmaniac said:
Third day of feeling rubbish, third day of negative nasal lft.

On top of the aches and massive fatigue (legs feel so heavy just getting up and moving to another room at snail's pace), now feels like sinuses swollen and a sore throat developing.

Given how my initial reaction in March '20 was very mild (the opposite of my partner), I do wonder that despite it being seven months since my booster, is it quite feasible I could currently have covid and not give an lft positive result?
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If you are testing with a nose only LFT then swab your throat too. Sometimes these nose LFTs miss COVID and when the throat is swabbed too it picks it up. Your symptoms certainly sound like they could well be COVID.
 
ltron said:
If you are testing with a nose only LFT then swab your throat too. Sometimes these nose LFTs miss COVID and when the throat is swabbed too it picks it up. Your symptoms certainly sound like they could well be COVID.
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Cant do the throat swabs, really strong gagging reflex, even a nurse had no joy when I had minor surgery two years back.:(

A lot of symptoms so far are very similar to the ~3.5 week presumed proper flu I had last October, negative tests, only real difference I can recall is that back then my nose was streaming for the first few days.
 
UTmaniac said:
Cant do the throat swabs, really strong gagging reflex, even a nurse had no joy when I had minor surgery two years back.:(

A lot of symptoms so far are very similar to the ~3.5 week presumed proper flu I had last October, negative tests, only real difference I can recall is that back then my nose was streaming for the first few days.
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I am the same with the throat swabs and the x-ray plate things my dentists uses. https://m.made-in-china.com/product...-X-ray-Film-Positioning-System-750255272.html
 
Freefaller said:
I was and I'm sure others will testify hugely negative about the lockdowns and the impingement of freedoms. However as the solidarity moved from the young to the older/vulnerable people in society it allowed time for society to learn and adapt. Gave time for the vaccine to be developed and also keep our heads above water.

However I was liked a coiled spring and went out and traveled as soon as I could.

Yes there are negative impacts of lockdown. However, the true lockdown was only 3 months really and if you wanted to you could make it work. Like for example, meeting up with people for a walk in the countryside. Technically it may have been a breach of the law, but actually still remaining relatively safe.

Then within months you were able to go to people's homes and so on. Sure, I agree. It's not the same but If you look at things now it is pretty much how it used to be give or take. Events like this change society and life, just like the times before the Blitz people's lifestyles changed afterwards for the better or for the worse.

It bought time for the NHS and universities to study and help propose options. The "B" word hasn't helped in terms of staff and so on, but it is what it is. The NHS was on its knees before covid this was just the catalyst for making it more visible.

Yes, mental health issues are at all time high. Yes, there are secondary effects and impacts but that's just another element of this crisis that has to be dealt with. You would not have been able to avoid the secondary effects even if we hadn't had a lockdown.
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For many, the secondary social and economic effects this country faces today are just as acute as the problems we faced in March 2020… only there’s no magic pill in the pipeline to help these people.

Solidarity is great. It’s just unfortunate it’s applied so selectively, and isn't extended in the opposite direction.
 
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Sankari said:
Boom!




RIP biolab conspiracy theory. Press F to pay respects. 1 like = 1 prayer.
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There is still massive holes in the market theory, though some patterns can be matched mathematically using data which some say is of dubious veracity due to official Chinese involvement. There are huge gaps (similar to the lab theory) in evidence on the animal side despite some patterns on the human side which strongly infer an animal with the market.

That two quite distinct variants of the same virus had an established existence in the area at that point in time also tends to indicate it emerged somewhere else at least a month earlier (based on the trends with new variants of this virus since) - though it isn't impossible two variants emerged within animal populations in/around the market leading to two distinct animal/human spill over events that is about a similar level of far fetched as the lab theory at this point vs reliable evidence.

The BBC have distanced themselves somewhat from the conclusions taking a more middle ground stance since the original report ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62307383 ) they did on those studies https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-62322484

I'm not sure we will ever know the truth but there is nothing which conclusively shoots down the biolab conspiracy angle.

Something I find curious about this whole thing is that those 2 variants which existed around Wuhan in the early days - one was less transmissible but more deadly often resulting in 3 week long sickness in a broader cross-section of the population, while the other was more transmissible but relatively milder, affecting the elderly more, and went on to become the ancestor of most strains which are currently in existence. The more deadly version responsible for much of the early scenes seen in Italy, etc. but made up less than 20% of UK cases at its peak and seems to have become virtually extinct by late 2020. But we never seem to have recalibrated from that and the Chinese still seem to be panicked by the impact of that strain despite it seeming to no longer exist (unless they know something else we don't). Though there likely are other considerations for the Chinese in dealing with the virus such as the ability for their medical system to cope with the population density, etc.

In terms of conspiracy theories I'd tend to favour the virus actually emerging from a lab in Italy originally - though I can't find out if the work was ever beyond theoretical - there was ongoing research involving a BSL4 facility in Italy on monoclonal antibodies for neutralisation of SARS coronavirus using a model similar in structure to SARS-CoV-2, involving Chinese researchers with links to Wuhan, sewage samples from that area of Italy which seem to have remnants of SARS-CoV-2 like RNA slightly predating the known timeline of the pandemic and lots of the information relevant to that was removed from the internet once the pandemic kicked off proper - probably an attempt to avoid irrational repercussions rather than something sinister but who knows. (Not something I'm necessarily suggesting seriously but there is a lot of odd circumstantial stuff there).
 
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No way we'll ever know for sure where it came from now. Lots of people will believe what they want to one way or the other, as with most things in life.
 
We're going on a cruise next weekend and they have dropped the test result requirement to now - you just get asked if you've done a test and what was the result...

#Covidsecure :p
 
Freakbro said:
We're going on a cruise next weekend and they have dropped the test result requirement to now - you just get asked if you've done a test and what was the result...

#Covidsecure :p
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Ha, I'm sure people will be honest

Hopefully we are now in the downturn of the latest wave but I think this Winter will see even higher levels of infection if the timing is right with a new variant / sub-variant. With energy costs being so high, people / businesses / public buildings etc will be doing everything they can to keep the heat in and that means less ventilation.
 
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Rroff said:
In terms of conspiracy theories I'd tend to favour the virus actually emerging from a lab in Italy originally - though I can't find out if the work was ever beyond theoretical - there was ongoing research involving a BSL4 facility in Italy on monoclonal antibodies for neutralisation of SARS coronavirus using a model similar in structure to SARS-CoV-2, involving Chinese researchers with links to Wuhan, sewage samples from that area of Italy which seem to have remnants of SARS-CoV-2 like RNA slightly predating the known timeline of the pandemic and lots of the information relevant to that was removed from the internet once the pandemic kicked off proper - probably an attempt to avoid irrational repercussions rather than something sinister but who knows. (Not something I'm necessarily suggesting seriously but there is a lot of odd circumstantial stuff there).
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I would imagine you’re aware of this, but samples taken from medical patients in Italy have both now shown that the virus was present there in early September and that people were developing Covid antibodies in response to it by mid September. The controversy around it is this occurred at the same time the Wuhan lab took offline all their virus research so it looks like something happened at around that time that the Chinese were certainly aware of at some level.
 
Whether it was lab or market aside, I believe the Chinese know more about this virus than they are divulging. The massively costly lockdowns that are still ongoing suggest they are either mad or have a fear of some development or mutation that's so far not been seen. I don't think they're mad and I don't think it's a matter of pride by the government, to be seen to be on top of it, the government don't have to worry about such trivialities in communist countries, I think it's a fear of some potential the virus has that they secretly have knowledge of .

As for the disparate versions of the virus at first (remember the sci-fi magazine like stories of blood turning to jelly?), to me the most obvious answer is more than one "version" escaped.
 
Uther said:
I don't think it even matters really, not like we can do anything about it.
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Well in an ideal world you would hold people accountable if there was proof of negligence, but that would be unlikely to happen anyway so yes, it is largely academic at this point.
 
After having no reaction from either of my Pfizer jabs other than sore arm and slightly achy joints for a day, I've just had my frst Moderna and boy was that different story - 4 days of heavy flu symptoms (fever, bad guts, hardly walk, 2 days stuck in bed only leaving for the bathroom etc) but without any tradional flu symptoms like blocked nose, bad chest or coughing etc - I'm past it now but weirdly my shin bones (both tibia specifically) still ache abnd are sore to the touch, which is weird.
 
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