COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

Feek · 6 Dec 2022 at 08:07

teenwolf said:
Why it's my getaway holiday home

You're being deliberately obtuse, it's clearly in the rules and this is your third suspension for it in just over a week.

skipper847 · 6 Dec 2022 at 09:17

Tephnos said:
You can question it as long as you have a basic understanding of what it is you're questioning.

You, however, parroting facebook crap says that you're just being contrarian out of paranoia.

Dont you think the rules were abit daft and controlling though as that what it was mainly about control. But you cannot without getting ho stop listening to facebook or getting shouted at. They even tried making people follow arrows round a shop like that would make a difference.

Mr Jack · 6 Dec 2022 at 09:31

SupraWez said:
Any chance those in the industry can explain / expand for the none medically minded

What do you have questions about? It seems fairly straightforward: they autopsied 35 individuals who had died within 20 days of receiving either of the two mRNA vaccines. From those 35, they identified five cases where the heart showed signs consistent with death by myocarditis. Four died after the first jab, one after the second. Four had BioNTech, one had Moderna. Three were female, two were male. They were aged 46-75. By looking at various indicators in those five patients, they concluded that the death of three of them was "likely" to have been caused by the vaccine, whilst the remaining two were "possibly" caused by the vaccine.

skipper847 · 6 Dec 2022 at 09:36

Tephnos said:
No it doesn't. You have no idea how immunity works. We know the safety profile of the jabs well, you're not getting cancer in 5 years because you had a vaccine. Any long term side effects are going to be the result of severe short term side effects - those of which we are well aware of.

I dont believe that but ok.

CapitalOne · 6 Dec 2022 at 09:58

skipper847 said:
I dont believe that but ok.

Again, what you believe is just a hypothesis, proving it is where the actual facts are.

SexyGreyFox · 6 Dec 2022 at 10:32

skipper847 said:
Dont you think the rules were abit daft and controlling though as that what it was mainly about control. But you cannot without getting ho stop listening to facebook or getting shouted at. They even tried making people follow arrows round a shop like that would make a difference.

Again you have now posted something sensible without delving into conspiracy rubbish.
Yes some of the rules were barmy but you've also got to take into account it was also a learning process that upset a lot of people.
eg I have to walk into a restaurant with a mask on but take it off when I sit down, I'm pretty sure Mr Covid knows the difference in height.

skipper847 · 6 Dec 2022 at 10:53

Just what conspiracy have i posted i just asked questions. Its not conspiracy when its coming true and a lot are having side effects from these jabs.

tom_e · 6 Dec 2022 at 11:11

skipper847 said:
Just what conspiracy have i posted i just asked questions. Its not conspiracy when its coming true and a lot are having side effects from these jabs.

Are they or are the side effects from covid itself? Which most people have ended up with whether they've noticed or not.

CapitalOne · 6 Dec 2022 at 11:20

skipper847 said:
Just what conspiracy have i posted i just asked questions. Its not conspiracy when its coming true and a lot are having side effects from these jabs.

You believe it's coming true but have no proof. Like I said, hypothesis not fact. Are you qualified to prove the hypothesis or are you just "saying what you see"?

skipper847 · 6 Dec 2022 at 11:29

tom_e said:
Are they or are the side effects from covid itself? Which most people have ended up with whether they've noticed or not.

When every symptoms is covid. Cold and flu vanished for 2 years and not one add on cold or flu products in shops but now adds again every where for cold and flu.

SupraWez · 6 Dec 2022 at 11:32

Mr Jack said:
What do you have questions about? It seems fairly straightforward: they autopsied 35 individuals who had died within 20 days of receiving either of the two mRNA vaccines. From those 35, they identified five cases where the heart showed signs consistent with death by myocarditis. Four died after the first jab, one after the second. Four had BioNTech, one had Moderna. Three were female, two were male. They were aged 46-75. By looking at various indicators in those five patients, they concluded that the death of three of them was "likely" to have been caused by the vaccine, whilst the remaining two were "possibly" caused by the vaccine.

Thanks, that sums it up nicely

Tephnos · 6 Dec 2022 at 12:21

skipper847 said:
I dont believe that but ok.

Right, so care to explain how the immune system gives you cancer then or a long term issue out of nowhere?

The actual vaccine substance is destroyed by the immune system within days of having it. The body takes those instructions and makes antibodies/immune cells that are targeted to fight the infection. Sometimes the immune response can cause immediate issues (myocarditis, etc.) as proven, those are very quick to show themselves.

After the immune response is over, that's it. It's done. So, where exactly is the mechanism that somehow gives you a long term condition years down the line? The only thing that could possibly happen is we targeted the wrong protein, and the antibodies generated start attacking an unintended cell - this is however another near immediate reaction and we would *know* about it by now.

It's been 2 years, nothing is gonna happen. Stop confusing drugs and vaccines, they work on entirely different principles. One is designed to deliberately disrupt cellular function in your body for an intended purpose (or unintended), the other just makes use of your body's system and nudges it in the right direction.

ltron · 6 Dec 2022 at 12:23

Rroff said:
To be fair many experts haven't covered themselves with glory on COVID and politics has interfered at times. But a factor too many people won't allow for is that an infectious disease like this is often 1 step ahead of what we can see - make the wrong call or just waiting to see if it is as bad as we fear, etc. and it could be disastrous. We've also had a changing situation due to changes to the disease and advances in understanding.

With regard to surface transmission there are 2 factors which seem to have been lost in the noise - early on in Wuhan there were 2 clades of the virus 19a and 19b - one of which was more readily spread via surfaces but lost out in dominance - with those variants dropping to a small fraction of cases and/or virtually extinct. Then unfortunately it transpires 2 of the main authorities who were the source of the information on surface transmission were convinced, without evidence, that SARS(1) was the progenitor of COVID and based their modelling on the assumption SARS(1) had changed to behave like we were seeing with COVID.

One of the things which annoys me most about this situation is a seeming lack of willingness to try and understand the disease and react proportionally and as information changes - some stuff which was very valid or serious concerns early on, is no longer the case but often takes considerable time for that to be acted on. For instance with the massive ramp of home delivery it quickly became apparent there was a strong likelihood that transmission via fomites was, at least with variants in general circulation, far more situational than feared and that porous surfaces particularly were poor for the virus but it took far longer for that to be properly looked at or taken onboard and acted on. More recent studies show surface transmission to be responsible for only 1 in 10K to 1 in 50K infections depending on variant and circumstances.

Why people were getting thread banned though was due to pushing what they wanted to be the case rather than something which had much merit and/or parroting easily disproven social media posts by contrarians and the like - if people believe half the **** that has been spread about during the pandemic they seriously need to have words with themselves.

However I also have serious concerns as to the official side of things, despite sometimes understanding or not disagreeing with the intentions behind some of it - there has been an awful lot of stuff pushed by official sources or authorities on the subject which isn't accurate or even wrong as well. For example the way the vaccine was messaged in respect to preventing transmission.

We are pretty lucky really COVID is bad but seemingly not the "big one" as another time, it wouldn't take much in the way of changes, we'd have been looking at many many more millions dead.

Indeed, but the vaccines would have been much more effective at preventing transmission had the virus not mutated so much before we could vaccinate everyone. It was to the point where the rate of mutation was greatly outpacing the change in the vaccines.

This capacity for mutation surprised people, but it was a function of the very high infection rate and the failure by the global community as a whole to take effective measures to control the virus until we could vaccinate enough people.

Therefore I don't think they lied about this as such. If the virus had stayed in its original form, or even as Alpha/pre-Delta, then I believe it would have been eradicated in the West by the vaccines (and elsewhere if we had been clever about it).

Tephnos · 6 Dec 2022 at 12:26

There was no conspiracy theory regarding transmission, and I'm not sure why Rroff is pushing that angle. As Itron has said, it actually *did* prevent transmission, right up until Delta (somewhat), but mostly Omicron.

That is not the fault of messaging, but of changing circumstances. People seem to forget that by the first few weeks of vaccination, our infection numbers plummeted to almost under 4 digits.

sidimmu · 6 Dec 2022 at 12:59

Sorry to randomly jump in to this, wondering if true or nonsense.

Just had one of my clients go on a 20 minute rant that there is now confirmed medical evidence that;
"More vaccinated people have died from covid than those unvaccinated."

Has anyone got any proof of this? I've asked him for a reference but dont think im going to get it.
Dont want to comment further on some of his views, but they are one of these guys "theres thousands of athletes having heart attacks now, because of the vaccine", unsure if any truth to it or not as I dont really listen to anything titled COVID anymore.

skipper847 · 6 Dec 2022 at 13:03

Climate lockdowns next 2024

wont go into detail but i think that be next big control and only elites be able to travel just as they did in the covid.

Tony Edwards · 6 Dec 2022 at 13:06

skipper847 said:
When every symptoms is covid. Cold and flu vanished for 2 years and not one add on cold or flu products in shops but now adds again every where for cold and flu.

Colds and flu did not vanish fo two years. Its just less people caught them because they werent out catching it and spreadding it. Road accidents went down as well, now they have gone up again.

sidimmu said:
Sorry to randomly jump in to this, wondering if true or nonsense.

Just had one of my clients go on a 20 minute rant that there is now confirmed medical evidence that;
"More vaccinated people have died from covid than those unvaccinated."

Has anyone got any proof of this? I've asked him for a reference but dont think im going to get it.
Dont want to comment further on some of his views, but they are one of these guys "theres thousands of athletes having heart attacks now, because of the vaccine", unsure if any truth to it or not as I dont really listen to anything titled COVID anymore.

Some of those athletes havent even had the vaccine and it has been happening for years before covid or the vaccine anyway.

tom_e · 6 Dec 2022 at 13:07

sidimmu said:
Sorry to randomly jump in to this, wondering if true or nonsense.

Just had one of my clients go on a 20 minute rant that there is now confirmed medical evidence that;
"More vaccinated people have died from covid than those unvaccinated."

Has anyone got any proof of this? I've asked him for a reference but dont think im going to get it.
Dont want to comment further on some of his views, but they are one of these guys "theres thousands of athletes having heart attacks now, because of the vaccine", unsure if any truth to it or not as I dont really listen to anything titled COVID anymore.

More people are vaccinated than aren't so yes I'd guess they are correct in an absolute numbers sense.

Tony Edwards · 6 Dec 2022 at 13:07

skipper847 said:
Climate lockdowns next 2024 wont go into detail but i think that be next big control and only elites be able to travel just as they did in the covid.

Then there is something wrong with either your brain or the brain of the person you get your absolute ******** from.

Tony Edwards · 6 Dec 2022 at 13:10

sidimmu said:
Sorry to randomly jump in to this, wondering if true or nonsense.

Just had one of my clients go on a 20 minute rant that there is now confirmed medical evidence that;
"More vaccinated people have died from covid than those unvaccinated."

Has anyone got any proof of this? I've asked him for a reference but dont think im going to get it.
Dont want to comment further on some of his views, but they are one of these guys "theres thousands of athletes having heart attacks now, because of the vaccine", unsure if any truth to it or not as I dont really listen to anything titled COVID anymore.

The sad thing is your client sounds like they are probably the type of person claiming misleading death figures due to covid claiming even if you get hit by a bus it is counted as covid related.