COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

I don't see anything wrong in wondering if a big Pharmaceutical firm with investors (often with political sway) will have a hidden agenda in their product creating a constant revenue.

If its really only for human kind then it should be sold at cost price to every country on the planet right. I mean, the many people who say those who haven't had the vaccine are selfish scumbags should really put all that passion into protesting for global equality on a thing like this.

Why does something like insulin cost many thousands for people without insurance in America. Its profit margins are 1000%. +

Does anyone have any sources of profit margins on a covid vaccine? I imagine the costs to produce will only get cheaper over time too.

It's all quite interesting. No harm in questioning it.
 
Freefaller said:
I genuinely have never had the flu. I've barely ever had a cold.

However I did get COVID at least once before the jabs were available and probably since I had the jabs. I'm sure it helped or at least minimised any long term effects as my immune system was able to protect me thanks to the vaccine.

Just because you have something that may be mild to you, such as flu or even COVID doesn't mean you need to be that dismissive of it.

Albeit I chose to be blasé but I don't expect others to be.

I am off course still worried that there may be don't longer term side effects of the jabs. However there are also clearly side effects from disease as well. You can't really succeed 100%. However the SARS virus and understanding has spanned decades. From my understanding COVID 19 was (from my simpleton perspective) a new type of SARS virus but we already had enough building blocks for it to fast track the vaccine. Also the entire world was collaborating to conquer it.

I'm not going to lie, I am awaiting the full studies of the vaccines and their long term impact. But it's done now. I was able to travel to see friends and family nearly a dozen times since lockdown so it was worth it just for that. Selfish perhaps, but that's the joy of being a multinational.
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Okies my reply won't suit everyone and I understand what you are saying.

And yes the studies the time frame the side effects will only time will tell.

I have took my chances we are all entitled to that.
 
Hedge said:
I don't see anything wrong in wondering if a big Pharmaceutical firm with investors (often with political sway) will have a hidden agenda in their product creating a constant revenue.

If its really only for human kind then it should be sold at cost price to every country on the planet right. I mean, the many people who say those who haven't had the vaccine are selfish scumbags should really put all that passion into protesting for global equality on a thing like this.

Why does something like insulin cost many thousands for people without insurance in America. Its profit margins are 1000%. +

Does anyone have any sources of profit margins on a covid vaccine? I imagine the costs to produce will only get cheaper over time too.

It's all quite interesting. No harm in questioning it.
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Exactly and how can we trust these entities.
 
Hedge said:
I don't see anything wrong in wondering if a big Pharmaceutical firm with investors (often with political sway) will have a hidden agenda in their product creating a constant revenue.

If its really only for human kind then it should be sold at cost price to every country on the planet right. I mean, the many people who say those who haven't had the vaccine are selfish scumbags should really put all that passion into protesting for global equality on a thing like this.

Why does something like insulin cost many thousands for people without insurance in America. Its profit margins are 1000%. +

Does anyone have any sources of profit margins on a covid vaccine? I imagine the costs to produce will only get cheaper over time too.

It's all quite interesting. No harm in questioning it.
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A friend of mine is diabetic and when he travels to the states he has to take out special insurance because it would bankrupt him if he needs help. It's messed up. Healthcare is major contributor of bankruptcy in the USA... There's something quite broken about pharmaceutical companies making a massive profit...
 
It’s like most things. There isn’t just one side that’s 100% right and the other side is 100% bolleaux, but in the Covid/vaccine debate it was one side that came out with all the bolleaux, and like most things the professionals, experts and academics are far, far more “right” than the wannabes.

Unfortunately the wannabes headed to facebook and twitter and the professionals, experts and academics headed to hospitals and scientific papers (thanks god). Bar Trump and Brexit there hasn’t been so much poison on social media since, but that’s why those sources are always critisised.

I’ll just cite Piers Corbyn, Lawrence Fox and Right Said Fred as exhibits. Where are their Nobel Prizes? :D
 
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pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Autopsy-based histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination - PubMed

Cases of myocarditis, diagnosed clinically by laboratory tests and imaging have been described in the context of mRNA-based anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Autopsy-based description of detailed histological features of vaccine-induced myocarditis is lacking. We describe the autopsy findings and...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Interesting read.

Any chance those in the industry can explain / expand for the none medically minded :)
 
CapitalOne said:
It’s like most things. There isn’t just one side that’s 100% right and the other side is 100% bolleaux, but in the Covid/vaccine debate it was one side that came out with all the bolleaux, and like most things the professionals, experts and academics are far, far more “right” than the wannabes.

Unfortunately the wannabes headed to facebook and twitter and the professionals, experts and academics headed to hospitals and scientific papers (thanks god). Bar Trump and Brexit there hasn’t been so much poison on social media since, but that’s why those sources are always critisised.

I’ll just cite Piers Corbyn, Lawrence Fox and Right Said Fred as exhibits. Where are their Nobel Prizes? :D
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There was a time when well regarded people used to claim Smoking was beneficial, or when cocaine pills were good for anxious minds.

Then you have trusted doctors creating an opioid epidemic or dishing out valium to teenagers to help them relax at college. Anti depressants prescribed like smarties.

Blindly trusting anyone with a degree isnt always smart.

Covid narrative has changed over time. Don't wear masks, wear masks, dont wear masks. Clean surfaces, don't bother.
 
skipper847 said:
It takes years for side effects to come out and are showing now but the media covering them up. This jab wasnt tested and 50k doesnt prove anything. You are the ones testing it and it wasnt even tested on animals before hand either.
Ive seen articles saying making and changing beds and fizzy drinks can even cause blood clots etc. There are a lot more people having side effects and deaths than one person again you are only seeing what you want to see.
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No it doesn't. You have no idea how immunity works. We know the safety profile of the jabs well, you're not getting cancer in 5 years because you had a vaccine. Any long term side effects are going to be the result of severe short term side effects - those of which we are well aware of.
 
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Hedge said:
Supposedly you're not allowed to question anything. You're meant to just follow the masses then try to belittle anyone who might hold a different opinion to you. Don't ya just love the division.
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You can question it as long as you have a basic understanding of what it is you're questioning.

You, however, parroting facebook crap says that you're just being contrarian out of paranoia.
 
Hedge said:
There was a time when well regarded people used to claim Smoking was beneficial, or when cocaine pills were good for anxious minds.

Then you have trusted doctors creating an opioid epidemic or dishing out valium to teenagers to help them relax at college. Anti depressants prescribed like smarties.

Blindly trusting anyone with a degree isnt always smart.

Covid narrative has changed over time. Don't wear masks, wear masks, dont wear masks. Clean surfaces, don't bother.
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To be fair many experts haven't covered themselves with glory on COVID and politics has interfered at times. But a factor too many people won't allow for is that an infectious disease like this is often 1 step ahead of what we can see - make the wrong call or just waiting to see if it is as bad as we fear, etc. and it could be disastrous. We've also had a changing situation due to changes to the disease and advances in understanding.

With regard to surface transmission there are 2 factors which seem to have been lost in the noise - early on in Wuhan there were 2 clades of the virus 19a and 19b - one of which was more readily spread via surfaces but lost out in dominance - with those variants dropping to a small fraction of cases and/or virtually extinct. Then unfortunately it transpires 2 of the main authorities who were the source of the information on surface transmission were convinced, without evidence, that SARS(1) was the progenitor of COVID and based their modelling on the assumption SARS(1) had changed to behave like we were seeing with COVID.

One of the things which annoys me most about this situation is a seeming lack of willingness to try and understand the disease and react proportionally and as information changes - some stuff which was very valid or serious concerns early on, is no longer the case but often takes considerable time for that to be acted on. For instance with the massive ramp of home delivery it quickly became apparent there was a strong likelihood that transmission via fomites was, at least with variants in general circulation, far more situational than feared and that porous surfaces particularly were poor for the virus but it took far longer for that to be properly looked at or taken onboard and acted on. More recent studies show surface transmission to be responsible for only 1 in 10K to 1 in 50K infections depending on variant and circumstances.

Why people were getting thread banned though was due to pushing what they wanted to be the case rather than something which had much merit and/or parroting easily disproven social media posts by contrarians and the like - if people believe half the **** that has been spread about during the pandemic they seriously need to have words with themselves.

However I also have serious concerns as to the official side of things, despite sometimes understanding or not disagreeing with the intentions behind some of it - there has been an awful lot of stuff pushed by official sources or authorities on the subject which isn't accurate or even wrong as well. For example the way the vaccine was messaged in respect to preventing transmission.

We are pretty lucky really COVID is bad but seemingly not the "big one" as another time, it wouldn't take much in the way of changes, we'd have been looking at many many more millions dead.
 
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Tephnos said:
You can question it as long as you have a basic understanding of what it is you're questioning.

You, however, parroting facebook crap says that you're just being contrarian out of paranoia.
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I don't use social media at all so you can refrain from using that angle.

I'm not paranoid about anything either. I just have no issue with people being contrarian. Without contrarians civilisation would be pretty stagnant. The world needs people to question things and offer alternative views. What a boring existence it would be otherwise.

And who are you to say what I can and can't question? This is exactly the issue. You've come the conclusion that the source of all your knowledge is 100% infallible and you will try to belittle and disregard anything that doesn't align.

People used to believe the earth was flat and people who said otherwise used to be the contrarians.

Oh and what part am I parroting? I'm just allowing myself to keep an open mind. I'm not an anti vaxxer or anything. I've had my jabs. I just don't like the attitudes of people who think they are better than anyone who doesn't hold their view.
 
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Rroff said:
To be fair many experts haven't covered themselves with glory on COVID and politics has interfered at times. But a factor too many people won't allow for is that an infectious disease like this is often 1 step ahead of what we can see - make the wrong call or just waiting to see if it is as bad as we fear, etc. and it could be disastrous. We've also had a changing situation due to changes to the disease and advances in understanding.

With regard to surface transmission there are 2 factors which seem to have been lost in the noise - early on in Wuhan there were 2 clades of the virus 19a and 19b - one of which was more readily spread via surfaces but lost out in dominance - with those variants dropping to a small fraction of cases and/or virtually extinct. Then unfortunately it transpires 2 of the main authorities who were the source of the information on surface transmission were convinced, without evidence, that SARS(1) was the progenitor of COVID and based their modelling on the assumption SARS(1) had changed to behave like we were seeing with COVID.

One of the things which annoys me most about this situation is a seeming lack of willingness to try and understand the disease and react proportionally and as information changes - some stuff which was very valid or serious concerns early on, is no longer the case but often takes considerable time for that to be acted on. For instance with the massive ramp of home delivery it quickly became apparent there was a strong likelihood that transmission via fomites was, at least with variants in general circulation, far more situational than feared and that porous surfaces particularly were poor for the virus but it took far longer for that to be properly looked at or taken onboard and acted on. More recent studies show surface transmission to be responsible for only 1 in 10K to 1 in 50K infections depending on variant and circumstances.
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Rroff said:
Why people were getting thread banned though was due to pushing what they wanted to be the case rather than something which had much merit and/or parroting easily disproven social media posts by contrarians and the like - if people believe half the **** that has been spread about during the pandemic they seriously need to have words with themselves.

However I also have serious concerns as to the official side of things, despite sometimes understanding or not disagreeing with the intentions behind some of it - there has been an awful lot of stuff pushed by official sources or authorities on the subject which isn't accurate or even wrong as well. For example the way the vaccine was messaged in respect to preventing transmission.

We are pretty lucky really COVID is bad but seemingly not the "big one" as another time, it wouldn't take much in the way of changes, we'd have been looking at many many more millions dead.
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If we had not developed the vaccines at that time, many millions WOULD have died. Science won out in the end, not politicians, experts or demonstrators although some had varying parts to play.
 
Hedge said:
For a so called 'Man of Honour' the repetitive school yard ganging up posts should be a bit beneath you.
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Not really, my MOH was for using the shop from the beginning and staying loyal.
Nothing to do with my IQ.
However if people say stupid things I'll pick them up on it.
 
Hedge said:
I don't use social media at all so you can refrain from using that angle.

I'm not paranoid about anything either. I just have no issue with people being contrarian. Without contrarians civilisation would be pretty stagnant. The world needs people to question things and offer alternative views. What a boring existence it would be otherwise.

And who are you to say what I can and can't question? This is exactly the issue. You've come the conclusion that the source of all your knowledge is 100% infallible and you will try to belittle and disregard anything that doesn't align.

People used to believe the earth was flat and people who said otherwise used to be the contrarians.

Oh and what part am I parroting? I'm just allowing myself to keep an open mind. I'm not an anti vaxxer or anything. I've had my jabs. I just don't like the attitudes of people who think they are better than anyone who doesn't hold their view.
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With regard to “we would still be thinking the earth is flat” line. The spheroid nature of the planet was proved by experts and scientists of the time and not just by people who took an uneducated yet opposite view because it was different (which is a contrarian). In other words, it’s fine for people who know what they are talking about to assert facts and hypotheses no matter how they differ from the current thinking, but you’ve got to have the qualifications.

You can come up with as many hypotheses as you like bit it”s the proving or not of them that is important.
 
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