COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

grudas said:
I mean statistically everything has a risk of xyz
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I agree with you. Crossing the road carries a risk.

grudas said:
Flu jabs, tinnitus jabs etc all have risks associated with them, it's just the reality.
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That's true. Statistically, you're 24 times more likely to have an adverse reaction to a Covid shot than a Flu Jab.

Two years ago you'd have been thrown off social media platforms and YouTube for sharing views which are now main stream news (clot shot).

More will come out.

Yet we're still here arguing.
 
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grudas said:
I mean statistically everything has a risk of xyz... the 0.14% number is minuscule compared to the benefits it brings. Flu jabs, tinnitus jabs etc all have risks associated with them, it's just the reality. The overall "good" they bring is why it is important.

I personally do not care who has or hasn't had a jab, the people that are strange are the ones that spend their free time arguing online over x or y when in reality it makes no difference to them.
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There's no such thing as a middle ground on any topic ever these days, pick a side god-damn it ;)


I got banned from a forum at the height of this for merely pointing out it was unhelpful to claim the jab had "10 years worth of testing" and lying like that would just breed CT nuts.

At the same time, every drug ever kills people, if you gave the whole population a penicillin shot tomorrow statistically a few thousand people would die.
 
mk1_salami said:
I agree with you. Crossing the road carries a risk.


That's true. Statistically, you're 24 times more likely to have an adverse reaction to a Covid shot than a Flu Jab.

Two years ago you'd have been thrown off social media platforms and YouTube for sharing views which are now main stream news (clot shot).

More will come out.

Yet we're still here arguing.
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24 times sound scary but percentage wise per 100k people it's really not that bad for a jab that has been developed so quickly. I didn't get AZ I had pfizer and moderna, 3 shots. Only one left me feeling a bit dull for a few hours.

I had covid once - that I know off, year + since the last jab and it was 4 days of genuinely bad and the rest just walking zombie with no energy. It's hard to say how it would have been without the jab but I'd rather not find out.
 
grudas said:
I mean statistically everything has a risk of xyz... the 0.14% number is minuscule compared to the benefits it brings. Flu jabs, tinnitus jabs etc all have risks associated with them, it's just the reality. The overall "good" they bring is why it is important.
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He won't get it and will still call it a clot shot or similar even though if you catch Covid you are statistically much higher to get clots.
Those early days of Post Mortem reports before the vaccine was full of Covid clots.
 
Sythe79 said:
There's no such thing as a middle ground on any topic ever these days, pick a side god-damn it ;)


I got banned from a forum at the height of this for merely pointing out it was unhelpful to claim the jab had "10 years worth of testing" and lying like that would just breed CT nuts.

At the same time, every drug ever kills people, if you gave the whole population a penicillin shot tomorrow statistically a few thousand people would die.
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You've actually hit the nail on the head. This subject, amongst many others, has become heaviliy politicised. Particularly in the USA, where it seems either you're a Democrat, love to wear masks, are vaccinated to the hilt and believe men can get pregnant. On the other side of the coin, you're a nasty, freedom-loving, gun-toting, Trump-supporting, redneck idiot. Ironically the shots were pushed by Donald Trump.

You're also right in that this is a nuanced topic, and things get heated. What frustrates me is the people who have an almost religious or cult like fervour, with an impenetrable defence mechanism surrounding shots which were sped through, with no long-term data by criminal organisations.
 
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This is a really good video about covid, the vaccine, bad information, and treatments.

If you're not a fan of PBD then fast forward to Chris Cuomo's part. It was supposed to be a gotcha about an interview he did trying to shame someone into taking the vaccine because of transmission. But he gave a full explanation and answer.

The bad information part is about ivermectin. I suspect the power of politics skewed public opinion on it.

youtu.be

"Bad Information" - Will Chris Cuomo Apologize For CNN's COVID Coverage?

In a recently surfaced video, Byron Donalds engages in a discussion with Chris Cuomo about COVID vaccines, advocating for individuals' right to choose whethe...
youtu.be youtu.be
 
mk1_salami said:
What frustrates me is the people who have an almost religious or cult like fervour, with an impenetrable defence mechanism surrounding shots which were sped through
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and for some reason you think I'm one of them, I'm just picking you up on stupid things you've said.
We all know there are risks to the vaxx, my own department dealt with 100s of staff who were off because of reactions and some haven't recovered.
However like Sythe says - give 100k people any vaccine and a great proportion will have adverse effects even with those vaccines that have been around for decades.
That's what they do.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
However like Sythe says - give 100k people any vaccine and a great proportion will have adverse effects even with those vaccines that have been around for decades.
That's what they do.
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I agree with you. But you don't think 24 times more dangerous than a Flu jab is a cause for concern at all? Data on VAERS shows there are more Covid shot reactions than every other vaccine combined in the last 17-18 years* (need to check the exact amount of years, but you get my point). Think about that. Every Chickenpox, Hep A, Hep B, HPV, Mumps, Rabies, Smallpox, Yellow Fever, Diptheria, Tetanus, Polio, Measles, Flu, many many more combined.

*need to check the exact number when I'm at home. I did check this last year but can't remember the exact number of years. Will follow up.

I've heard a common counter to what I've just said, and it goes something like this .... "ahhh but we issued a lot more covid vaccines than other vaccines, so that's why the number is higher". Well, that's simply not true. The vaccine schedule in the USA is extensive, to say the least and dwarfs the number of covid shots issued over that same timeframe.

Remember these things were mandated to many across the globe. To millions of people, it wasn't a choice.
 
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To follow up the previous post... I want you to acknowledge the following:

1. These covid shots are not "safe" when compared to other vaccines.
2. They're not particularly effective.

Then we'll agree.

Whether they're a net benefit is not what I'm discussing. Anecdotal accounts like "if I didn't take the vaccine it would be way worse" hold no weight at all, and as I alluded to in a previous post; the "death" data is so bad that making a choice based on it is impossible. Remember died "with Covid" vs died "of Covid", and the admission that the Covid death count used the former?
 
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mk1_salami said:
1. These covid shots are not "safe" when compared to other vaccines.
2. They're not particularly effective.
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We're in the very very early stages of Covid vaccines, I would wager that in the early stages of polio, chicken pox, hepatitis etc there would have been similar statistics and a Salami somewhere saying "Come on, this hepatitis jab is nowhere near as good as measles".
I bet many decades ago when the flu jabs came out we saw just as many 'dangerous' cases as Covid.
In fact even now the staff who seem to suffer more with jabs seem to be the ones who have the Flu jab, 2 colleagues in my department refuse flu but will have the Covid (yes that's anecdotal).

I would say that they are very effective for people like me with 6 comorbidities.
Just remember I'm on the receiving end of many hospital notes where it has been logged that the patient benefited from the jab, I also see many reports where the patient has refused the jab and they're now in a right mess.
I saw an A&E card today from 2021 where a patient was admitted with really bad chest complaints (not heart) and in big letters it says "Had Pfizer one week ago".
Looking at her Journey's I would say there was a correlation between the jab and her chest pains but I'm not a Clinician.

You seem to think I think they are perfect, they absolutely aren't but for some people like me it's the best I've got and I'm willing to take the chance.

Some of the rules were really stupid eg
My band had to perform doing outside gigs where we had to sit down so we used bar stools where we just rested our bum cheeks on the stools, come forward a bit and we would give everybody Covid.
It was mandatory to have the vaxx to go on a plane, ridiculous, from day one we were told the vaxx wouldn't stop us getting Covid or passing it on.
I could go and watch a rock band at a local venue or have a meal but as soon as I stood up I had to wear a mask because Covid knows the difference.
It was because of that last one a brother in law couldn't go to the gym even though people could go for a meal and he became an absolute PITA with his conspiracy theories that Covid wasn't real, we haven't spoke since.
 
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mk1_salami said:
I agree with you. But you don't think 24 times more dangerous than a Flu jab is a cause for concern at all? Data on VAERS shows there are more Covid shot reactions than every other vaccine
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As I said earlier,
could your 24 times more dangerous be down to the fear of covid making people just report more? Flu vaccines have been common for years, the covid ones were new, so add that to the fear of getting covid and I would say people would report the smallest reaction that they thought was due to the vaccine. Statistics are not all knowing now, are they?
 
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tonys said:
As I said earlier,
could your 24 times more dangerous be down to the fear of covid making people just report more?
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By that logic, could the deaths reported with/by Covid be skewed in the same way?
 
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tonys said:
As I said earlier,
could your 24 times more dangerous be down to the fear of covid making people just report more? Flu vaccines have been common for years, the covid ones were new, so add that to the fear of getting covid and I would say people would report the smallest reaction that they thought was due to the vaccine. Statistics are not all knowing now, are they?
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Could probably agree with that

I don't remember the bbc doing daily death figures on the evening news for flu or measles before

Almost like the MSM tried to scare the **** out of the population, it certainly worked for my in laws, still scared to go to the supermarket even now
 
mk1_salami said:
By that logic, could the deaths reported with/by Covid be skewed in the same way?
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They could be if the original data wasn't correctly reported.ie died of covid rather than died with covid. How likely that would have happened I can't be sure now can I.
 
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@UTT

I noticed you didn't reply to my reply accusing me of anecdotal evidence so I'll repeat it again.

I was one of these - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ld-get-travel-certificates-say-top-scientists

“Vaccine trial participants – of whom there are more than 50,000 in the UK but many tens of thousands more globally – have been discriminated against as second class citizens by politicians globally instead of treated as the heroes they are. Without them we would have no vaccines at all,” Faust said.
 
tonys said:
They could be if the original data wasn't correctly reported.ie died of covid rather than died with covid. How likely that would have happened I can't be sure now can I.
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Early on in the pandemic, especially before vaccines, deaths caused not directly by covid but could have been explained as being hastened by covid (that is, they wouldn't have died of their condition if they didn't catch covid) were marked down as covid deaths. So yes, without the data being verified independently and vetted, it again cannot be relied upon to draw any conclusions. It's basically a 'here is some data, further research is required'.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
@UTT

I noticed you didn't reply to my reply accusing me of anecdotal evidence so I'll repeat it again.

I was one of these - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ld-get-travel-certificates-say-top-scientists

“Vaccine trial participants – of whom there are more than 50,000 in the UK but many tens of thousands more globally – have been discriminated against as second class citizens by politicians globally instead of treated as the heroes they are. Without them we would have no vaccines at all,” Faust said.
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Happy to be corrected old bean. Didn't see your reply earlier as been busy with work

I still think it's a pretty small number given the govt planned on dolling out millions of doses and mandating it for 1000's of care workers but that's just me
 
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