COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

The version of covid I had, BQ.1.1 appeared in the UK in October '22 (I got it in December of that year) avoided all known vaccines at the time.

You might want to try reading those articles, You do know you have other parts of the immune system that still worked against and would target the virus due to vaccination, vaccines didn’t just make antibodies against Covid , they also programmed CD4 (helper) and CD8 (natural Killer) T-cells and other parts of the immune system to detect and respond to the virus, which are far more robust and harder for mutations to get around than antibodies.
 
whilst I accept there are incredibly minor risks with the vaccines they pale into significance the risks of COVID and long COVID imo. luckily we are now at a point of "you do you" if you don't want a jab don't have one, however at least self isolate if you get it.... and spouting that the vacine is worse than the disease is dangerous nonsense.

my aunt and uncle both got very sick with it in their 80s. it's partly on them. they only had 1 jab and didn't like the side effects and as they are house bound didn't bother to get any more. their travelling hairdresser went to their house before Xmas and as she was packing up casually told them she felt rough as she had covid.
both my aunt and uncle caught it off her and almost ended up in hospital. despite what some claim COVID is still nasty for many who get it esp if they don't have much immunity (natural or otherwise) against it.


I think people forget how overwhelmed hospitals were before there was a vaccine. sadly it does not stop COVID but it's hard to sensibly argue it does not help keep people out of hospital or worse.
We had elderly friends that also caught it off a hairdresser back in 2021 - both in their 80's, both hospitalised - one died, the other was never the same again and lasted only 1 more year. Their hairdresser also announced she had a "cold" just as she was leaving.....

In other news I see the CIA have decided (sort of ) that the virus probably came from the Woohan lab - but cant be totally sure, maybe, possibly...or not.
 
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American relations with China low so America blames the Chinese for Covid. Others have said it was def not bio-engineered. It was discovered in Wuhan but that does not mean anything. Thats like saying, for example that Mpox was created by the DRC because that was where the first outbreak happened. Mpox was actually discovered by the Danes in the 50's in lab monkeys. As humans encroach on wildlife areas they will get into contact with diseases which will pass the human-animal barrier.
 
You might want to try reading those articles, You do know you have other parts of the immune system that still worked against and would target the virus due to vaccination, vaccines didn’t just make antibodies against Covid , they also programmed CD4 (helper) and CD8 (natural Killer) T-cells and other parts of the immune system to detect and respond to the virus, which are far more robust and harder for mutations to get around than antibodies.
I should have said had a lesser neutralisation impact.

I'm not anti vaccine. I'm just relating my own experience.
 
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The fact they have a scheme says enough to me. Did not one notice how many football games have stopped recently due to heart attacks etc of fans ? Ah yes I’m a tin foil guy cause I have eyes

The reason they often stop the games now is because the medical personal from both teams go and help the person suffering a medical crisis, without that personal the game can't continue. This never happened before covid and it only started happening because people realised there are more important things than sport in that moment due to covid. The idea that people never had medical crisis before covid is laughable and proper tin foil hat stuff. No shortage of people at football games with hypertension and existing heart disease, then add all the tension and emotions that football can bring, hardly a surprise that this leads health crisis events.

As for players suffering cardiac episodes, its always been happening. FIFA started a study back in 2014, its been listed above. Some people are just susceptible to sudden cardiac episodes. Covid likely hasn't helped due to the damage it causes to the heart.
 
That sounds like a dispute between you and the paper on terminology.

I'm not anti vaccine. I'm just relating my own experience.

I'd be interested to know your answer on why some people have long covid having never had covid, only the vaccine?

Tired T-cells is one theory of long covid. Trials are being done to relax them via a low dose of immune suppressant.

There's no dispute between the poster and the paper, it's between you and the paper, you claimed it avoided all vaccines, which is not what the paper claims.

Do you have scientific evidence of people who have long COVID without ever having had COVID?
 
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There's no dispute between the poster and the paper, it's between you and the paper, you claimed it avoided all vaccines, which is not what the paper claims.

Do you have scientific evidence of people who have long COVID without ever having had COVID?
He's probably getting mixed up with ME/CFS which is very similar to Long COVID and obviously happened before COVID.
 
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The entire concept behind vaccines is not that it saves everyone, not that they are perfect, not that they don't cause problems themselves, but they reduce the total mortality of the population.

This requirement that they are absolutely safe is, frankly, ridiculous. I always remember my doctor telling me that ALL medicine is the same - there is ALWAYS a cost.

It's scary, taking a risk by saying yes to any medicine, because it may may kill you and it certainly will change you. But statistically your chances are better if you take it.

Honestly, it seems to me that anti-vaxers are just afraid of making that decision. I sometimes think we would be better off with a Chinese government who would just tell you what to do and be done with all this debate.
 
The reason they often stop the games now is because the medical personal from both teams go and help the person suffering a medical crisis, without that personal the game can't continue. This never happened before covid and it only started happening because people realised there are more important things than sport in that moment due to covid. The idea that people never had medical crisis before covid is laughable and proper tin foil hat stuff. No shortage of people at football games with hypertension and existing heart disease, then add all the tension and emotions that football can bring, hardly a surprise that this leads health crisis events.

As for players suffering cardiac episodes, its always been happening. FIFA started a study back in 2014, its been listed above. Some people are just susceptible to sudden cardiac episodes. Covid likely hasn't helped due to the damage it causes to the heart.
When people talk about stuff like heart attacks during sport they seem to forget that there was a huge change in awareness after one of the Premier league players had one on live TV during a game and was basically only saved because there was a cardiologist in the crowd who assisted the paramedics.

From memory that led to amongst others things a lot of awareness campaigns and training for pretty much everyone involved in professional football (and even under 11's* school league stuff), then there were a few deaths of players of football etc during school matches that led to a major push to put defibs in schools and sporting venues.

So now when someone has a medical emergency in the crowd at a football match there is a process to stop the game if needed to allow the medics to provide assistance and if need be easily get the patient to somewhere they can receive a higher level of care.

My brother in law knows of a kid who died of a heart attack why playing football back in about 2018 or possibly even earlier, it was a boy that had regularly played against the team my nephew was in. Apparently it happened only a few weeks after my brother in law's team had played against him.


*My brother in law was a coach for various school age teams for ~20 years stopping 10 years ago, he had the training and awareness courses that emphasised things like watching for the signs and avoiding certain older training techniques that were know to stress the heart a lot more.
 
The entire concept behind vaccines is not that it saves everyone, not that they are perfect, not that they don't cause problems themselves, but they reduce the total mortality of the population.

This requirement that they are absolutely safe is, frankly, ridiculous. I always remember my doctor telling me that ALL medicine is the same - there is ALWAYS a cost.

It's scary, taking a risk by saying yes to any medicine, because it may may kill you and it certainly will change you. But statistically your chances are better if you take it.

Honestly, it seems to me that anti-vaxers are just afraid of making that decision. I sometimes think we would be better off with a Chinese government who would just tell you what to do and be done with all this debate.
Yup

People who claim vaccines are unsafe because there are potential side effects have obviously never paid any attention to any medical procedure, test or medication they've ever had.

Every single medication, test and procedure has a set of risks involved, and every time they are licenced that risk is assessed compared to what it is doing.

Even the gloves doctors used to wear had a high chance of causing an allergic reaction in a very small percentage of the population.
Paracetamol can damage your liver.
Ibuprofen can cause issues with the stomach lining (so you take another medication to prevent that, which in turn has it's own lesser issues).
When you go for a blood test you run a risk from the damage the needle does, and if you have too many blood tests (or donate regularly) it can cause an issue with accessing the veins in the future.
A chest x-ray can cause miscarriages, especially early on in pregnant women.

I won't go into the list of "scary" side effects listed on the packet of anti histamine tablets I've got in front of me.

That's before any of the medications and procedures that are actively damaging and risky but are significantly less so than not doing anything.


And the really stupid thing is that a lot of the medical stuff with risks that people panic about are far lower than the risks from other things they do daily without a thought, it's just that anything involving side effects or deaths from medical related things is reported centrally, recorded and made public so that researchers, doctors and patients can be aware of them and hopefully safer/better ways to do them can be found.
Or they'll say how unsafe vaccines are then go and take a deworming paste intended for horses and not be at all worried about the fact they're literally pooping a layer of skin from their guts out because they've taken a huge dose far in excess of the safe human level.
 
Do you have scientific evidence of people who have long COVID without ever having had COVID?
Yes here;



Post-acute COVID-19 vaccination syndrome (PACVS).

I've also communicated with people who have it.
 
He's probably getting mixed up with ME/CFS which is very similar to Long COVID and obviously happened before COVID.
Yup CFS/ME seems very similar in a lot of the effects to long covid and has been known about for ~40 years or so.
Given no one knows what causes it (too few cases/too spread out in time and place* and basically no researc), but one of the key common things seems that ME/CFS hit a lot of people after certain viral infections it was something that I know many people who were aware of it were worried could happen with covid.



*Although at one point it seemed you would often get small clusters in a geographic area with multiple people going down at about the same time. suggesting there is a common link or a combination of factors that increase the chance (IE possibly an infection and an environmental factor** or genetic factor).


**I know where I grew up there seemed to be about 3 or 4 clusters of maybe 2 or 3 people over a year or so that went down with it (most got diagnosed years later), the common factor was either they went to schools that backed onto a stream, or they lived in properties that were near that stream and had one of the nastier common viral infections. IIRC the stream in question was very polluted at various points in the 80's and would flood onto at least one school field, and various places the kids played (or indeed the kids that lived near enough would often play in it).
 
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Yes here;



Post-acute COVID-19 vaccination syndrome (PACVS).

I've also communicated with people who have it.
That’s not long covid though, like you claimed
 
Yes here;



Post-acute COVID-19 vaccination syndrome (PACVS).

I've also communicated with people who have it.

Thank you, interesting read (not going through the whole paper, but some parts and some of the papers it's referring too). Also some other papers on it. It does point out that some of these may be a type of ME or CFS, potentially triggered by the vaccine however. A big paper argues it shouldn't be lumped in with long COVID due to key differences.

Odd that it seems to be mainly effecting women. Or perhaps it's just women are more likely to go to the doctor and be checked out.

Think a key takeaway for me was long COVID rates after getting COVID were between 5-10%, whereas long pacvs (so not just a short term reaction, but one that lasted a month or more) was 0.2%.

As pointed out above, vaccines aren't safe. They're just safer.

I know someone who suddenly developed a severe allergic to reaction to a medicine they'd taken semi regularly in the past with no issue. Zero to severe anaphylaxis in just one dose. Doesn't make the medicine less safe for the majority though.
 
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That’s not long covid though, like you claimed
It is considered long covid by the community. Because the symptoms are the same.

But because the origin of the symptoms is different the medical profession have rightfully catagorised it under its own heading.

I think it'll be useful data in eliminating both covid and long covid, hopefully, in the near future.
 
I know someone who suddenly developed a severe allergic to reaction to a medicine they'd taken semi regularly in the past with no issue. Zero to severe anaphylaxis in just one dose. Doesn't make the medicine less safe for the majority though.
My next door neighbour was like that. Had his first Pfizer dose and developed severe arthritis and allergic reactions. He was told not to have any more vaccinations.

I agree that for the majority vaccines worked out well. There would be far more people dead without any vaccines.

All vaccines can be improved, especially against a changing target.

There are tablet vaccinations being developed, and nose sprays to help slow down any virus.

I've has long covid from covid and been bedbound for over 2 years. I'm eager for treatments to help finish off any lingering virus or whatever other damage as been done.
 
Thank you, interesting read (not going through the whole paper, but some parts and some of the papers it's referring too). Also some other papers on it. It does point out that some of these may be a type of ME or CFS, potentially triggered by the vaccine however. A big paper argues it shouldn't be lumped in with long COVID due to key differences.

Odd that it seems to be mainly effecting women. Or perhaps it's just women are more likely to go to the doctor and be checked out.

Think a key takeaway for me was long COVID rates after getting COVID were between 5-10%, whereas long pacvs (so not just a short term reaction, but one that lasted a month or more) was 0.2%.

As pointed out above, vaccines aren't safe. They're just safer.

I know someone who suddenly developed a severe allergic to reaction to a medicine they'd taken semi regularly in the past with no issue. Zero to severe anaphylaxis in just one dose. Doesn't make the medicine less safe for the majority though.

Is it so surprising it is more common in women? If it's an immune reaction going haywire, that would tend to happen to women (as with most immune system issues) due to theirs being naturally stronger than mens.
 
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When people talk about stuff like heart attacks during sport they seem to forget that there was a huge change in awareness after one of the Premier league players had one on live TV during a game and was basically only saved because there was a cardiologist in the crowd who assisted the paramedics.

From memory that led to amongst others things a lot of awareness campaigns and training for pretty much everyone involved in professional football (and even under 11's* school league stuff), then there were a few deaths of players of football etc during school matches that led to a major push to put defibs in schools and sporting venues.

So now when someone has a medical emergency in the crowd at a football match there is a process to stop the game if needed to allow the medics to provide assistance and if need be easily get the patient to somewhere they can receive a higher level of care.

My brother in law knows of a kid who died of a heart attack why playing football back in about 2018 or possibly even earlier, it was a boy that had regularly played against the team my nephew was in. Apparently it happened only a few weeks after my brother in law's team had played against him.


*My brother in law was a coach for various school age teams for ~20 years stopping 10 years ago, he had the training and awareness courses that emphasised things like watching for the signs and avoiding certain older training techniques that were know to stress the heart a lot more.

It was Tottenham vs Bolton when Fabrice Muamba had a cardiac arrest and one of the Spurs fans was a cardiologist ran on to help. His heart stopped for 78 minutes but they got him back. I was at that game and it was a very surreal experience. I've been at 2 games since where they have stopped the game due to medical emergencies in the crowd and I'm not even a season ticket holder, go to maybe 4-6 games a year.
 
Yup

People who claim vaccines are unsafe because there are potential side effects have obviously never paid any attention to any medical procedure, test or medication they've ever had.

Every single medication, test and procedure has a set of risks involved, and every time they are licenced that risk is assessed compared to what it is doing.

Even the gloves doctors used to wear had a high chance of causing an allergic reaction in a very small percentage of the population.
Paracetamol can damage your liver.
Ibuprofen can cause issues with the stomach lining (so you take another medication to prevent that, which in turn has it's own lesser issues).
When you go for a blood test you run a risk from the damage the needle does, and if you have too many blood tests (or donate regularly) it can cause an issue with accessing the veins in the future.
A chest x-ray can cause miscarriages, especially early on in pregnant women.

I won't go into the list of "scary" side effects listed on the packet of anti histamine tablets I've got in front of me.

That's before any of the medications and procedures that are actively damaging and risky but are significantly less so than not doing anything.


And the really stupid thing is that a lot of the medical stuff with risks that people panic about are far lower than the risks from other things they do daily without a thought, it's just that anything involving side effects or deaths from medical related things is reported centrally, recorded and made public so that researchers, doctors and patients can be aware of them and hopefully safer/better ways to do them can be found.
Or they'll say how unsafe vaccines are then go and take a deworming paste intended for horses and not be at all worried about the fact they're literally pooping a layer of skin from their guts out because they've taken a huge dose far in excess of the safe human level.

They clearly have never watched an illegal stream of footy from the US because if they had they'd hear list of potential side effects from the prescription drugs being advertised and "death" is mentioned a surprising amount of times. Very few people read the list of side effects from prescription drugs unless they feel unwell/strange after taking it.
 
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