COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

It's a very strange coincidence that the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention facility, was in the middle of moving buildings right near where the Covid virus was 1st detected. As stated in news article, it didn't have as strict protocols as the Virology institute.

A Danish head of a WHO team said;

“It’s interesting that the lab relocated on the 2nd of December 2019: That’s the period where it all started,” Embarek, a food safety and animal diseases expert, said in a documentary that aired on the Danish television channel TV2.

“We know that when you move a lab, it disturbs everything…That entire procedure is always a disruptive element in the daily work routine of a lab,”

"In the documentary, Embarek also revealed that his team was pressured by Chinese officials not to pursue the lab leak theory."

Im not sure what disturbs everything is supposed to mean. I mean when we did work on the labs at the last place i worked it disturbed the workflow and output the people could perform.
There was time that needed to be spent tuning etc.

We didn't release any of the nasties that were in there at any point.

So Ithink context is important and we don't know what hes really talking about.

I am sure they pressed for that. The Chinese try to supress ANYTHING thats not positive for them. I wouldn't read anything into that, at all.

Yeah that is an important side often overlooked.



There are several bits of information that are too often overlooked including the presence of S and L type variants of COVID (I believe what is denoted A and B in that article) present from almost if not day 1 in Wuhan - which almost certainly means it was in circulation, in humans, for at least a month elsewhere before the emergence at the market. Personally I don't hold too much by the presence of zoonotic genetic material as presented in that article though as there is far too much missing information and the lack of intermediate variants of the virus found in animals (also compared to the nearest known ancestor in the wild). Not sure we'll ever know the truth but currently I hold most of the leading possibilities as equally plausible and and equally falling short of a conclusive explanation.

Yeah well they mention that in their report, and virtually rule it out as being human introducing it to the market.
I totally agree on the conclusion part, we will never know for sure since as I mentioned a lot of the evidence trail (if it even existed) is now gone, its just impossible to recreate.

Funny thing is (and knowing the Chinese hate of waste) if something really gross happened like someone took some waste that should have been disposed of from the Lab and sold it to the market.
It kind of fits both scenarios then. People came in contact with it, (it wasn't a lab leak but a failure of probably some waste contractor), when it was moved and that triggered the chain.
Pretty gross but I could see it.

 

[Freefaller]

Because virus' are not even remotely like allergies, peanut or not.

Getting a vaccine is not the end of the world. You're using absurdo reductum's and not in a good way, not in a way that proves a point but in a way that makes your point look silly.

Articles that i CBA to read, let alone whatever gish gallop you say after this sentence, that AFAICT has almost nothing to do with how achieving herd immunity through vaccinations protect the most vulnerable in society.

Like i said i support your right to choose whether to put the most vulnerable in society at risk because you want to treat your body like a temple, it's not a choice i would personally make but you be you.

I'm not trying to prove a point just have a conversation.

 

[GGizmo]

I'm glad to see RFK is on board with Long Covid research. I know many in the community were scared he'd be dismissive of it.

 

[Tephnos]

Appreciating Unseul's contribution to the thread. He actually knows what he's talking about and reads the actual papers. I'm long done with that in these arguments, as you'll never convince these people they're wrong, so I've stopped trying.

Simon is apparently a wonder of statistics, because he knows a huge amount of people who all got ill from the vaccine (despite statistical catastrophic outcomes still being incredibly rare on a population level). Meanwhile, everyone I know took the vaccines and are perfectly fine. I know a fair number of people who caught covid and were not fine afterwards.

​

 

[Simon]

Appreciating Unseul's contribution to the thread. He actually knows what he's talking about and reads the actual papers. I'm long done with that in these arguments, as you'll never convince these people they're wrong, so I've stopped trying.

Simon is apparently a wonder of statistics, because he knows a huge amount of people who all got ill from the vaccine (despite statistical catastrophic outcomes still being incredibly rare on a population level). Meanwhile, everyone I know took the vaccines and are perfectly fine. I know a fair number of people who caught covid and were not fine afterwards.

​

Isnt that second paragraph slightly hypercritical? You have dismissed my point of view and then used the same evidence type for your pov

In fact the first one is too.

 

[Unseul]

Appreciating Unseul's contribution to the thread. He actually knows what he's talking about and reads the actual papers. I'm long done with that in these arguments, as you'll never convince these people they're wrong, so I've stopped trying.

Simon is apparently a wonder of statistics, because he knows a huge amount of people who all got ill from the vaccine (despite statistical catastrophic outcomes still being incredibly rare on a population level). Meanwhile, everyone I know took the vaccines and are perfectly fine. I know a fair number of people who caught covid and were not fine afterwards.

​

Whilst my arguments put forward here are an attempt at convincing people (though rarely the one I'm responding to, I've generally given up on that too), I mostly read the papers and do the research out of interest. It's nice to look into. I try and do it with other topics too, but biology is where my education was, so I tend to understand more of it.

 

[Tephnos]

Isnt that second paragraph slightly hypercritical? You have dismissed my point of view and then used the same evidence type for your pov

In fact the first one is too.

You are basing your entire argument and beliefs on your own personal experience, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary on a population level. I'm just responding in kind.

 

[Tephnos]

Whilst my arguments put forward here are an attempt at convincing people (though rarely the one I'm responding to, I've generally given up on that too), I mostly read the papers and do the research out of interest. It's nice to look into. I try and do it with other topics too, but biology is where my education was, so I tend to understand more of it.

Do you know what's happening with the latest variants? There used to be a new one every few months that would significantly dodge immunity. It seems like since KP.2/KP.3 it has gone virtually silent on that front. It would be nice to know if covid had finally hit a wall of transmission efficacy vs mutating to avoid pre-existing immunity (at least then boosters would have a decent chance of giving you longer term immunity).

 

[Unseul]

Do you know what's happening with the latest variants? There used to be a new one every few months that would significantly dodge immunity. It seems like since KP.2/KP.3 it has gone virtually silent on that front. It would be nice to know if covid had finally hit a wall of transmission efficacy vs mutating to avoid pre-existing immunity (at least then boosters would have a decent chance of giving you longer term immunity).

No idea whatsoever. Gut feel would be it's just going to be another part of the seasonal cold and flu group, constantly changing and varying, but hopefully now more controlled and less damaging. Like swine flu from a while ago.

Still, there's some more bird flus on the way, perfect time for another pandemic now the USA has stopped reporting public health concerns.

 

[Murphy]

I'm not trying to prove a point just have a conversation.

Semantics, if this post isn't trying to prove a point then that just further evidences my claim that it was gish gallop.

 

[inogen]

It's a very strange coincidence that the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention facility, was in the middle of moving buildings right near where the Covid virus was 1st detected. As stated in news article, it didn't have as strict protocols as the Virology institute.

A Danish head of a WHO team said;

“It’s interesting that the lab relocated on the 2nd of December 2019: That’s the period where it all started,” Embarek, a food safety and animal diseases expert, said in a documentary that aired on the Danish television channel TV2.

“We know that when you move a lab, it disturbs everything…That entire procedure is always a disruptive element in the daily work routine of a lab,”

"In the documentary, Embarek also revealed that his team was pressured by Chinese officials not to pursue the lab leak theory."

I don't think it's important where the virus originated and I don't think it ever has been. No single entity wanted to originate it and the litigation possibilities range from an individual or individuals for not following protocols or bankrupting western civilisation/starting WWIII.

It's so big it's just had to dealt with on a fundamental level. Everyone would turn the clock back. If there are people who do know where it started... well. The rest of the world doesn't really want to know.

 

[inogen]

No idea whatsoever. Gut feel would be it's just going to be another part of the seasonal cold and flu group, constantly changing and varying, but hopefully now more controlled and less damaging. Like swine flu from a while ago.

Still, there's some more bird flus on the way, perfect time for another pandemic now the USA has stopped reporting public health concerns.

Yeah bird flu has always been the big concern hasn't it?

It's one thing having a virus that jumps from species to species and then spreads within that species, it's quite another if a virus becomes contagious across species like bird flu can be and humans start to catch it from billions of things that fly and are always a few feet away.

 

[Rroff]

Yeah bird flu has always been the big concern hasn't it?

It's one thing having a virus that jumps from species to species and then spreads within that species, it's quite another if a virus becomes contagious across species like bird flu can be and humans start to catch it from billions of things that fly and are always a few feet away.

Fortunately so far no variant has been able to sustain infection chains in humans and zoonotic infection generally only happens in very specific circumstances. Hopefully it stays that way.

 

[Nutty667]

I don't think it's important where the virus originated and I don't think it ever has been. No single entity wanted to originate it and the litigation possibilities range from an individual or individuals for not following protocols or bankrupting western civilisation/starting WWIII.

It's so big it's just had to dealt with on a fundamental level. Everyone would turn the clock back. If there are people who do know where it started... well. The rest of the world doesn't really want to know.

I disagree. Sweeping the origins under the carpet is the best way to ensure it happens again.

 

[Hades]

I don't think it's important where the virus originated and I don't think it ever has been. No single entity wanted to originate it and the litigation possibilities range from an individual or individuals for not following protocols or bankrupting western civilisation/starting WWIII.

It's so big it's just had to dealt with on a fundamental level. Everyone would turn the clock back. If there are people who do know where it started... well. The rest of the world doesn't really want to know.

It's incredibly important where it originated so that we can close any gap and prevent it happening again.

 

[Freefaller]

Semantics, if this post isn't trying to prove a point then that just further evidences my claim that it was gish gallop.

If you say so! Have a lovely day.

 

[tom_e]

Today I have learnt "gish gallop" is an actual thing and not just someone sneezing on their keyboard. At least this thread has come in useful for something.

 

[Simon]

You are basing your entire argument and beliefs on your own personal experience, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary on a population level. I'm just responding in kind.

Im not basing my entire argument on only personal experience, so that’s a wrong statement. I’ve shared several links. Obviously ignored

 

[Unseul]

Im not basing my entire argument on only personal experience, so that’s a wrong statement. I’ve shared several links. Obviously ignored

Which links were ignored? I'd be happy to respond to any I've missed! I know I've only dropped in fairly recently.

 

[Simon]

Ah it’s fine. I just see this as different points of view on a complex thing. Wasn’t aimed at you in any case.